MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Daily
  • Exam Prep
    • CFPS Tools
    • NICET Tools
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Problems
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
  • TOOLS
    • TOOLKIT (FREE TRIAL)
    • *TOOLKIT (PURCHASE)
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'19)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • CODE CALLS
  • LOGIN
  • STORE
  • About
Picture
A FORUM FOR FIRE PROTECTION QUESTIONS & PE EXAM PROBLEMS | SUBSCRIBE NOW

Fire Alarm Devices Req'd to Have Address Label?

10/5/2020

4 Comments

 
Are initiation devices (smoke detectors, manual pull stations, duct detectors) required to have individual labels on them showing the device address?

The project in question is military and is also subject to UFC requirements.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
4 Comments

Is Phantom Flow Based on Larger Design Area?

8/10/2020

14 Comments

 
Would appreciate if you guys would weigh in on this disagreement I'm having.

Applicable Codes/Standards:
The project is subject to military code UFC 3-600-01 for Sprinkler Design Area and Design Density. Otherwise, NFPA 13-2016 applies to all other aspects of the system fire sprinkler design.

Description of System:
The system consists of a 1,000 sqft Ordinary Hazard Design area, surrounded by a larger (remainder of building) Light Hazard design area (these adjacent hazards are separated by full height walls that are capable of preventing a fire on one side from fusing sprinklers on the other side). Per UFC, the corresponding discharge densities should be 0.20 gpm/sqft over 2,500 sqft for the Ordinary Hazard design area, and 0.10 gpm/sqft over 1,500 sqft for the Light Hazard Design Area.

In accordance with the example provided in NFPA 13 Section A11.1.2, the size of the operating area for hydraulic calculations is determined by the Occupancy of the larger surrounding area. In this case, the hydraulic calculation design area is 1,500 sqft based on the larger surrounding light hazard area. A 0.20 gpm/sqft density would be provided for the 1,000 ft2 Ordinary Hazard design area, with a 0.10 gpm/sqft density for the remaining area.

Differing Opinions:
The difference in opinions for this situation is about how to apply NFPA 13-2016 section 23.4.4.2.5 to this situation.

NFPA 13-2016 23.4.4.2.5 Where the total design discharge from these operating sprinklers is less than the minimum required discharge determined by multiplying the required design density times the required minimum design area, an additional flow shall be added at the point of connection of the branch line to the cross main furthest from the source to increase the overall demand, not including hose stream allowance, to the minimum required discharge.

Opinion #1:
The required minimum design area as referenced in 23.4.4.2.5 should be the SAME design area that was utilized for the hydraulic calculations as determined by NFPA 13 Section 11.2.1. In this case the minimum design area would be 1,500 sqft.

Opinion #2:
Even though the remote area size was determined to be 1,500 sqft per section 11.2.1, the required minimum design area as referenced in 23.4.4.2.5 should be the minimum design area for the smaller, higher hazard area. In this case, the minimum design area should be 2,500 sqft based on the Ordinary Hazard design requirements. So if the flow from the 1,500 sqft hydraulic calculation is less than 500 gpm (2,500 sqft x 0.20 gpm/sqft), then an additional flow will need to be added to the remote area to bring the flow up to 500 gpm.

Which of the opinions do you feel is appropriate for this scenario?

​​​​​​​​​​Submitted anonymously and posted for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
14 Comments

Shelter-In-Place Req'ments for Area of Refuge?

5/29/2020

3 Comments

 
This building is an H-1 occupancy. There is an area of refuge on the 4th floor. The shelter-in-place Class 3 area of refuge is protected from interior and exterior hazards. There are vertical openings through all 4 floors. The UFC is governing.

Based on this, do the stairwells need to be intertied directly to the shelter-in-place area of refuge for an exit enclosure that is a direct accessible means of egress (we are providing accessibility provisions)? Does the shelter-in-place area need to be a smoke enclosure as well as the interconnected stairwell system?

Based on this will both the stairwell and the shelter-in-place need to be pressurized to meet design intent?

Both exterior and interior air is hazardous and a scrubber would be needed to inject air for stairwell pressurization.

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
3 Comments
    Jump to: Daily Posts
    Jump to: PE Problems
    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    Free Signup

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    Community

    Thank You to Our Top
    ​October '20 Contributors!
    1. SK
    2. Franck
    3. Dan W.
    4. Jonathan ​5. Casey M.
    6. Sean
    7. Colin L.
    8. Mike
    9. Jonathan J
    ​10. Daniel G.


    Your Post

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    The Toolkit

    Sprinkler Designer or Engineer?
    ​
    ​Get all of our tools, including the Sprinkler Database, Friction Loss Calculator, Fire Pump Analyzer and more:
    Picture
    FREE 30-DAY TRIAL
    GET THE TOOLKIT

    Filters

    All
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    IFC
    Information Sources For Analysis
    IRC
    Means Of Egress
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 12
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 92
    NICET
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management Systems
    Special Hazard Systems
    Types Of Analysis
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    Archives

    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    June 2015


    Daily
    Daily discussions are open-ended fire protection, fire alarm, and life safety questions submitted anonymously for the benefit of sharing expertise and learning from other perspectives. Anyone can submit a question here:
    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    Exam Prep

    Picture
    2020 PE Prep Guide​
    ​(Available Now!)
    Picture
    PE Prep Series
    ​(Available Now!)
    2020 PE Prep Series
    Current Leaderboard
    ​(Click to enlarge)
    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep

    PE Problems
    ​Visit July-October for daily Fire Protection PE Exam sample questions.

    Solutions are posted the day after posting.

    Comment with your solutions, questions or clarifications.

    Please note that questions posted are unofficial and in accordance with NCEES rules are intended to be similar to actual exam questions, not actual exam questions themselves.

    RSS Feed

Home - About - Blog - Contact - Exam Prep - Store
Picture
Copyright © 2020 MeyerFire, LLC
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author shown and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a commission for orders placed elsewhere.
  • Blog
  • Daily
  • Exam Prep
    • CFPS Tools
    • NICET Tools
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Problems
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
  • TOOLS
    • TOOLKIT (FREE TRIAL)
    • *TOOLKIT (PURCHASE)
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'19)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • CODE CALLS
  • LOGIN
  • STORE
  • About