MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Sidewalls Allowed in Deep Wood Beam Pockets?

3/21/2023

9 Comments

 
We have very deep beam glue-laminated timber construction that just has the laminated wood exposed to below.

The beams are very deep; 2'-9" deep. These form bays that are 13'-9" x 13'-9", many with smooth ceilings. The area below is light hazard.

Can sidewall sprinklers be used up in these coffered areas?
Picture
​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
9 Comments
Pete H
3/21/2023 07:04:02 am

Not really conceivably.

Your sidewall is horizontal, letting you go a maximum 12" below the deck. So you still need to spray under a 1'-9" obstruction, or 21" obstruction.

Say you could be centered in the 13'-9" bay. You're 6'-10.5" off the obstruction.

Check Table 8.7.5.1.3 (NFPA 13 2016 Edition).

To spray underneath an obstruction 14" below the deflector, you need to be at least 8'-6" away (which is where the table maxes out). Not only is this still not enough to spray underneath the beams to the side of the sprinkler by being too close to the obstruction, you still go 5" greater than the Table even has allowances for in the depth of the obstruction. And extended coverage or vertical sidewalls just give you worse numbers/allowances.

Unfortunately you need to protect each pocket/bay separately. And given the image, sidewalls are not really optimal for doing that here.

Reply
Pete H
3/21/2023 07:09:23 am

...21 minus 14 is 7, not 5. Let's just pretend that's a typo.

Reply
Dan Wilder
3/21/2023 07:50:31 am

Can you, sure. Need to confirm the lower perimeter soffits bounding the bays are less that 16",so providing a back to back installation is feasible within every pocket (13-22' 10.3.4.1.4.1 -The maximum width of the lintel or soffit shall not exceed 16 in. (400 mm).)

There is no ceiling pocket omission allowance for sidewalls.

Unless this is also considered "Limited-Combustible", the maximum width (throw) of the pocket is limited to 12' so you're now having to put in 2 sprinklers per bay facing each other. (13-22' Table 10.3.3.2.1) or use extended coverage sidewalls.

Little caveat...you'll be in the maximum spray area of sidewalls within each pocket going against (13-22' 10.3.4.1.6
Sidewall spray sprinklers shall be permitted to be installed on opposing or adjacent walls, provided no sprinkler is located within the maximum protection area of another sprinkler.) so again, an EC option is required.

Double check soffit depths against walls for possible requirements of added pendents beneath (13-22' 11.3.5.1.3.1*
Where soffits used for the installation of sidewall sprinklers are less than or equal to 8 in. (200 mm) in width or projection from the wall, additional sprinklers shall not be required below the soffit.)

This picture seems to indicate either a skylight or other upper soffit lighting above the plane of the upper step in within each pocket....? Throws yet another wrench as to spacing requirements is so.

Reply
Jesse
3/21/2023 09:03:35 am

Wow that's a mess. I think Dan's on the right track in finding an allowance to do it. I just don't think its the best means to protect this area. I think I'd be looking at other options.

Reply
Paul Pinigis
3/21/2023 09:23:36 am

Yes, you can treat each bay as a room and protect it with a sidewall.

Reply
HASSAN ABDALLA
3/23/2023 05:26:29 pm

That is what I was thinking considering pockets like room each.

Reply
Dave
3/21/2023 11:00:38 am

I assume beam penetrations (for the sprinkler lines of for back-to-back sidewalls) are out of the question, and I assume the architect is going to want the sprinkler lines running off to the side of the cells. I am also encountering similar configurations in historic buildings (e.g. McMenamins) with plaster coffered cells like this, and see effective use of sidewalls, horizontal or vertical, paying particular attention not to exceed the maximum deflector to back wall distance. I expect to see a lot of new challenges with new forms of engineered lumber, CLT, DLT, mass timber, etc.

Reply
Dave
3/21/2023 11:03:06 am

...But are there obstructions including those created by surface-mounted lights?

Reply
Glenn Berger
3/21/2023 11:15:47 am

Based on the dimension you provided, each pocket requires sprinkler protection.

You did not mention the hazard of the space provided. If LH, then one sprinkler per pocket required. If OH, then multiple sprinklers appear to be required.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top ​May 2023 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A1171
    Aba
    Ada
    Asce-7
    Asme-a171
    Astm-e1354
    Daily Discussion
    Design-documents
    En-12845
    Explosion-protection-prevention
    Fire-detection-and-alarm-systems
    Fire-dynamics
    Flammable-combustible-liquids
    Fm-global
    Human-behavior
    IBC
    Icc500
    IFC
    Imc
    Ipc
    Irc
    Iso
    Means Of Egress
    Nbc
    Nfpa-1
    Nfpa-10
    NFPA 101
    Nfpa-101
    Nfpa-11
    Nfpa-110
    Nfpa-1142
    Nfpa-1221
    Nfpa 13
    Nfpa-13
    Nfpa-13d
    Nfpa-13r
    Nfpa 14
    Nfpa-15
    Nfpa-16
    Nfpa-17a
    Nfpa-20
    Nfpa-2001
    Nfpa-214
    Nfpa 22
    Nfpa-220
    Nfpa 24
    Nfpa-241
    Nfpa-25
    Nfpa-25
    Nfpa-291
    Nfpa-291
    Nfpa-30
    Nfpa-30b
    Nfpa-33
    Nfpa-400
    Nfpa-409
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    UPC
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    June 2023
    May 2023
    April 2023
    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is a NICET Recognized Training Provider and International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2023 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • THE TOOLKIT
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR*
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER*
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER*
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR*
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'22)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER*
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • SYSTEM ESTIMATOR*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER STORAGE*
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • UNIVERSITY
    • JOIN
    • CATALOG
    • CONTENT LIBRARY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
  • PRICING
    • SOFTWARE & TRAINING
    • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT