MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Daily
  • Exam Prep
    • CFPS Tools
    • NICET Tools
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Problems
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
  • TOOLS
    • TOOLKIT (FREE TRIAL)
    • *TOOLKIT (PURCHASE)
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'19)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • CODE CALLS
  • LOGIN
  • STORE
  • About
Picture
A FORUM FOR FIRE PROTECTION QUESTIONS & PE EXAM PROBLEMS | SUBSCRIBE NOW

Method to Determine Closely-Spaced Sprinklers?

8/19/2019

2 Comments

 
NFPA 13 Section 8.15.4 (2013 Edition) requires certain types of unenclosed floor openings to be protected with closely spaced sprinklers where sprinklers serve as an alternative to the enclosure of the vertical opening. 

What method do you use to determine if the opening requires enclosure, and thus closely-spaced sprinklers? 

As a sprinkler designer, I may overlook something in the Building Code that allows the unprotected opening, or vice versa.

A pre-bid RFI to the architect seems to be the best course, but it would be nice to have something to hang the hat on before the bid is submitted.

​​Posted anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
2 Comments
Wayne Ammons
8/19/2019 08:06:42 am

I would absolutely submit a pre-bid RFI or qualify the bid with or without closely spaced sprinklers around the opening in question. In my opinion, the architect should have an intimate knowledge of the building codes, NFPA 101, 5000, etc. to design the proper enclosures, barriers, and ratings to meet the needs of the owner. On more than one occasion I have seen the design of an area in a building change once the architect realized there would need to be sprinklers every 6 ft. around an opening or those attractive window sprinklers to protect glazing.

I have worked with fire protection engineers who are acting as consultants working closely with architects and ultimately the architect decided what the design of the space would be while taking into consideration the fire protection implications.

I'm interested if others think I am completely off base here. Being on the contractor side of the sprinkler world, we often walk a fine line between consultant and contractor bidding off plans and specs.

Reply
Kelly
8/20/2019 07:16:12 am

As a design engineer, I can tell you that there are any number of instances that could require or not require closely spaced sprinklers around an opening.

If the jurisdiction follows ICC, check into section 404 or 712 of the IBC. It should be free to view online (albeit in a clunky online viewer not a nice pdf). But you should at least be able to see if one of the situations might apply to your building.

It would be hard to say for sure how the requirement kicks in, especially if you are not privy to the entire design package where you might see other mitigating factors in the design that prevents the need for the closely spaced sprinklers (ie smoke control). So I would agree, definitely submit that RFI, but hopefully those sections can help you be more informed. Good luck.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Jump to: Daily Posts
    Jump to: PE Problems
    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    Free Signup

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    Community

    Thank You to Our Top
    ​October '20 Contributors!
    1. SK
    2. Franck
    3. Dan W.
    4. Jonathan ​5. Casey M.
    6. Sean
    7. Colin L.
    8. Mike
    9. Jonathan J
    ​10. Daniel G.


    Your Post

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    The Toolkit

    Sprinkler Designer or Engineer?
    ​
    ​Get all of our tools, including the Sprinkler Database, Friction Loss Calculator, Fire Pump Analyzer and more:
    Picture
    FREE 30-DAY TRIAL
    GET THE TOOLKIT

    Filters

    All
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    Daily Discussion
    Design Documents
    Explosion Protection & Prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable & Combustible LIquids
    FM Global
    Human Behavior
    IBC
    IFC
    Information Sources For Analysis
    IRC
    Means Of Egress
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 12
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 400
    NFPA 415
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 92
    NICET
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management Systems
    Special Hazard Systems
    Types Of Analysis
    UFC 3 600 01
    UFC 3-600-01
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    Archives

    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    June 2015


    Daily
    Daily discussions are open-ended fire protection, fire alarm, and life safety questions submitted anonymously for the benefit of sharing expertise and learning from other perspectives. Anyone can submit a question here:
    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    Exam Prep

    Picture
    2020 PE Prep Guide​
    ​(Available Now!)
    Picture
    PE Prep Series
    ​(Available Now!)
    2020 PE Prep Series
    Current Leaderboard
    ​(Click to enlarge)
    Fire Protection PE Exam Prep

    PE Problems
    ​Visit July-October for daily Fire Protection PE Exam sample questions.

    Solutions are posted the day after posting.

    Comment with your solutions, questions or clarifications.

    Please note that questions posted are unofficial and in accordance with NCEES rules are intended to be similar to actual exam questions, not actual exam questions themselves.

    RSS Feed

Home - About - Blog - Contact - Exam Prep - Store
Picture
Copyright © 2020 MeyerFire, LLC
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author shown and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a commission for orders placed elsewhere.
  • Blog
  • Daily
  • Exam Prep
    • CFPS Tools
    • NICET Tools
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Problems
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE Prep Series
  • TOOLS
    • TOOLKIT (FREE TRIAL)
    • *TOOLKIT (PURCHASE)
    • SUBMIT AN IDEA
    • BACKFLOW DATABASE*
    • CLEAN AGENT ESTIMATOR
    • CLOUD CEILING CALCULATOR
    • DOMESTIC DEMAND
    • FIRE PUMP ANALYZER
    • FIRE PUMP DATABASE*
    • FIRE FLOW CALCULATOR*
    • FRICTION LOSS CALCULATOR
    • HANGER SPACER
    • IBC TRANSLATOR*
    • K-FACTOR SELECTOR
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('19 ONLY)
    • NFPA 13 EDITION TRANSLATOR ('99-'19)*
    • LIQUIDS ANALYZER*
    • OBSTRUCTION CALCULATOR
    • OBSTRUCTIONS AGAINST WALL*
    • PLUMBING FIXTURE COUNTS
    • REMOTE AREA ANALYZER
    • QUICK RESPONSE AREA REDUCTION
    • SPRINKLER DATABASE*
    • SPRINKLER FLOW*
    • TEST & DRAIN CALCULATOR
    • THRUST BLOCK CALCULATOR
    • TRAPEZE CALCULATOR
    • UNIT CONVERTER
    • VOLUME & COMPRESSOR CALCULATOR
    • WATER SUPPLY (US)
    • WATER SUPPLY (METRIC)
  • CODE CALLS
  • LOGIN
  • STORE
  • About