Do any of your projects with dry manual standpipes hold supervisory air?
I understand NFPA 14 Section 6.1.1 to have a requirement for supervision of the standpipe system:
6.1.1 Location of Dry Standpipes.
Dry standpipes shall be monitored in accordance with NFPA 72 with supervisory air pressure.
Are all dry manual standpipe systems provided with supervisory air? Or is this section meant to pertain only to automatic or semi-automatic dry systems?
I don't think holding supervisory air under pressure in a dry manual standpipe is feasible, being that there would be multiple points of leakage: www.aspe.org/pipeline/is-supervisory-air-monitoring-feasible-for-manual-dry-standpipes/
Just wondering if I'm completely missing the boat here, or if there's something about this portion of NFPA 14 that I'm misinterpreting. Thanks in advance.
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4/4/2022 06:55:00 am
4/4/2022 11:27:15 am
It looks like this isn't coming from the 2013 Edition. Section 5.2 of the 2013 Edition of NFPA 14 only addresses Automatic and Semi-Automatic Dry systems.
4/4/2022 11:45:23 am
Great catch, Wes! Shows the importance of adding the year to any code section referenced.
4/4/2022 11:28:28 am
What I'm trying to say is - Alex looks to be correct, up until the verbiage was changed in NFPA 14 (Section 6.1.1) in the 2016 Edition.
4/4/2022 08:13:17 am
I am glad you brought this up. I have spoken with the lead of the NFPA 14 committee on this myself and yes, it is required. There was a dry standpipe that when the FD charged it failed. As a result all must be supervises.
4/4/2022 08:37:57 am
I still disagree that it is required. When you call or post a question to NFPA, you are provided with the employees own interpretation of the code. I wonder if you would get a different response if posted again?
4/4/2023 06:20:55 am
Please bring it up to him again. I deal with tunnels and this change is coasting hundreds of thousands of dollars per project and adding nothing to the safety of the system. Adding compressed air in remote locations requires power, communications, a structure to houses the air compressor, motorized valves before the air release/vacuum valve and maintenance personnel to check on the site regularly. It caused lots of false alarms sending the fire department t the site.
4/4/2022 08:15:40 am
I agree with Alex. The provision for requiring supervisory air is in 2016 NFPA 14 220.127.116.11. The entirety of 5.2 deals with Automatic and Semi-Automatic standpipe systems.
4/4/2022 08:16:38 am
Take a look at the Report on Proposals for NFPA 14 for the current issue (maybe the previous version). There is a desire to ensure integrity of the system.
4/4/2022 08:24:13 am
I agree the system needs to have integrity. That is what regular inspections are for. I question how this requirement can be applied on docks or other structures that a compressor and supervisory alarm may not be reasonably installed without significant cost and modifications.
4/4/2022 10:39:39 am
I agree with Craig. 5 year hydros are covered for this situation in NFPA 25. Adding Air then adds potential for condensation and freeze issues as well as corrosion. I would hope these concerns are eventually clarified in NFPA 14. Fortunately my area does not permit manual standpipes.
4/4/2022 10:15:18 am
14:6.1.1 Location of Dry Standpipes.
4/4/2022 10:29:51 am
18.104.22.168 Automatic Dry Standpipe System.
4/4/2022 11:12:00 am
I would concur with DS above. NFPA 14is an installation standard and is a requirement for new systems not retroactive to existing systems. I have seen on more than one occasion where the periodic inspections don't and cannot verify the pipe integrity. The time to determine system integrity is NOT when the system is needed.
David Toshio Williams
4/4/2022 11:47:31 am
Just starting construction of the NavFac project with exterior exit stairs and manual dry standpipes. We are providing a nitrogen supervisory pressure system to meet the Navy's requirements.
4/6/2022 01:27:25 pm
The answer is multifocal and involves not only NFPA 14 but also NFPA 72.
6/21/2022 05:48:12 pm
From the NFSA Tech Notes for May 2022:
4/4/2023 06:30:24 am
Why monitor all? What about the 12' long standpipe that has the FDC at the base of the bridge and the HV at bridge level? Why would you require compressed air here? What purpose would is serve?
RB Robert Bennett
4/4/2023 06:55:20 am
Raymond, It sounds like you are designing something other than an NFPA 14 standpipe. Let's look at NFPA 14 section 3.3.19 and 3.3.20. The definition of standpipe is a system of pipes that deliver water to vertical floor of a building or horizontally in a structure.
Raymond Curtis Klein
4/4/2023 07:30:46 am
Road Tunnels and limited access highways are covered by NFPA 502. NFPA 502 requires compliance with NFPA 14. A tunnel has both horizontal and vertical aspects to it and while in the past Section 6.1 of NFPA 14 (prior to 2016) had sufficient verbiage to infer that when compressed air is used it shall comply with NFPA 72, which should be the only point of 6.1.1 (because other sections of cover whether compressed air is required or not), the current wording negates all other sections and simply requires all systems with that are dry to have compressed air.
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