Is there a general rule of thumb concerning overall installation cost for standard coverage vs. extended coverage sprinklers?
That is, if I can use half as many extended coverage (EC) sprinklers, is the system going to cost significantly less or more? Two examples come to mind:
Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
13 Comments
Hi All, I have a two part question regarding sprinklers below ductwork exceeding 48" wide. Both areas below (in different locations) are Ordinary Hazard, 130 sqft maximum spacing. When protecting below the ductwork in the elevation sketch below, is the 6'-11" dimension doubled to be 13'-10" the same as when spacing to a wall (SxL) ? Or can the distance to the next sprinkler be 15-ft (15 x 6-11 = 103.75 sqft)? In the plan view below, are sprinklers required below the 60" wide duct ABOVE the AHU (shown in green), if the vertical distance between the AHU and bottom of duct is greater than 24"? This would be under NFPA 13-2019, Section 9.5.5.3.1.5. Many thanks!
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does anyone know of a sleeve product that can be installed AFTER pipe installation without backing out the pipe?
The underlying issue is that I have a project with seismic requirements (for extra clearance at penetrations) that has many fire rated walls. Basic pipe sleeves with extra large clearance filled with fire caulk is our typical situation, but if a sleeve gets missed during rough-in, we're hoping to use something after that fact. So either looking for a split sleeve of some type, OR a way to fire caulk a 2 hour rated gypsum wall with extra large clearance per NFPA 13-2016 section 9.3.4.3. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hello everyone, I am currently working on a project where 5 deluge valves will be installed in a dedicate riser room. The room will only contain the deluge valves (5), the foam tank and air compressors.
How would you recommend I give dimensional requirements for this room to the architect? What's your thought process, or lessons learned, for sizing rooms like this? Thanks in advance - much appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In a recent project, I asked for hydrant flow test results from the civil engineer, and I received Boundary Conditions instead.
Is there a way of using this information to validate hydraulic calculations? An example of Boundary Conditions given to us: Demand = 18.54 gpm (1.17 L/s), HGL = 463'-11" (141.41 m), Pressure = 64.1 psi (442 kPa). Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an existing manufacturing area subject to NFPA 13-2022 Edition.
The Ordinary Hazard Group 2 manufacturing area sprinkler system can meet Figure 21.2.2.3.2 requirements for 0.20 density over 2,200 SF plus 500 GPM for hose streams required for Class III storage to 20 ft. high. Does the Ordinary Hazard Group 2 requirement of Section 4.3.3.2 (2) still limit storage height to 12-ft, regardless, since this is not a dedicated storage area? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am pricing sprinklers in a steel frame building with Z-Purlins and a white vinyl backed insulation composed of inorganic glass fibers which are bonded with a thermoset resin to form a uniformly textured blanket style insulation at the Roof.
In an otherwise noncombustible area above the ceiling will the White Vinyl Backed Vapor Barrier System now make this above ceiling area combustible, requiring sprinklers? From the data sheet I have found the vapor barrier has a flame spread of 0 but have found from a google search flame spread and combustibility are not the same. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Good morning! Is there any NFPA 13 prescriptive option for this type of obstruction? These are ceiling waves with a horizontal fall chain lighting system. Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can a branch line tee to multiple sprinklers? Please see the attached example. I'm trying to figure out if a branch line that has a tee to multiple sprinklers would then be considered a main or still part of the branch line. This question also applies to looped branch line systems. The classification of branch lines and mains can have a major effect on the amount of seismic bracing required.
NFPA 13 defines branch lines as "The pipes supplying sprinklers, either directly or through sprigs, drops, return bends, or arm-overs." NFPA defines arm-overs as "A horizontal pipe that extends from a branch line to a single sprinkler or a sprinkler above and below a ceiling." Therefore, others that I have talked to have argued that the branch line will become a cross main since it is now feeding two sprinklers off of one line. This as a result would require additional seismic bracing. NFPA defines a cross main as "The pipes serving the branch lines, either directly or through riser nipples." In my opinion, the pipe would remain a branch line because it still aligns with the branch line definition. Moreover, there is nothing in NFPA that says that branching/teeing from a branch line automatically reclassifies the branch line as a main. Just because a pipe is no longer serving as an arm-over doesn't categorize the pipe feeding it as a main. The distinction between branch lines and cross mains is primarily based on their roles within the overall system, branch lines serve individual zones or areas, while cross mains supply multiple branch lines. What do you think? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are air compressors for dry fire sprinkler systems required to be listed?
Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am a President of Board of a 4-story condo building. The building was built in 1982 and is concrete block.
We received permission from fire marshal several years ago to remove all our fire hoses. The fire department told us that if there was a fire they would not use them. They would hook up to the FDC in front of our building. My question is - what is the purpose of the building's fire pump, and can we petition to also have it removed? What are the deciding factors or requirements on when a deluge system would be required on a stage to separate the stage from the audience?
This would be for the proscenium opening protection. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does code allow a fire sprinkler riser to be installed in a rated stairwell enclosure?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is "tenting" wet system piping (in an unheated attic) an appropriate approach to protect the pipes when the outside air temperature can drop to approximately 0 degrees F for multiple consecutive days?
In this case, the soffit and ridge vents allow exterior air into the attic space and there is no air barrier to prevent cold air infiltration. I have reviewed NFPA 13 and 13R and cannot find a definitive answer. Many thanks for assisting. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For multi family buildings, I am being told that for a 4-story building, normally the fire pumps are only 15HP because the standpipes are pressurized by the fire trucks.
My understanding of NFPA 20 is that it would still be required to have a correctly sized fire pump without considering the size of the pump on the local fire trucks. Is this an industry norm that is allowed by certain AHJ’s or is there code related to multi family that I am missing? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Hello, First post for me here, thanks in advance for the assistance. In regards to the irregular room and spacing off the walls, I understand the .75 allowance up to 11'3" for the irregular or less than 90 degree wall (NFPA 13, 2019, 10.2.5.2.2). However, I have a set of plans I'm reviewing showing four rooms with only one sprinkler and they are applying this section as one wall in each room is irregular - however - the other walls are all regular 90 degree walls but they are exceeding 7'6" off those walls as well. In my interpretation, they should only be able to apply the above section for the irregular walls only, not normal 90 degree walls. In this situation I would request an additional head in each room. Am I missing something here? Thank you.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are Saunas within dwelling units considered bathrooms?
Bathroom: within a dwelling unit, any room or compartment dedicated to personal hygiene, containing a toilet, sink, or bathing capability such as a shower or tub. Would saunas fall under the definition of bathroom, since they are dedicated to personal hygiene and contain a bathing capability? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When doing a Forward Flow on a Sprinkler System what is the Minimum # that Fire Marshals are looking for?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe This question is regarding obstructions to residential upright and pendent sprinklers.
The 2016 edition of NFPA 13, 8.10.6.1.2 (4) states that obstructions that are located against the wall and that are not over 24 inches in width shall be permitted to be protected in accordance with Figure 8.10.6.1.2(c). This is a pretty sweet rule, as basically your only concern is the sprinkler distance from the wall and not the obstruction dimensions. However, the 2016 edition of NFPA 13R does not contain this wonderful rule, even though the rest of the obstruction rules are essentially the same. Any thoughts on why the decision was made not to include this rule in NFPA 13R? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can a seismic restraining strap, when used in conjunction with a C-type beam clamp, have the locknut on the clamp that's used for securing the bolt also be used to secure the seismic strap? Any advice would be great - I'm not able to get a cutsheet for the Caddy 300 clamp and a 35 Seismic Restraining Strap. Thanks for any advice.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an existing penthouse that has limited (no) access to the structure at the roof and requires sprinkler coverage. We have a variance from the AHJ to omit sprinklers from non accessible areas. Has anyone designed a sprinkler system supported from the floor entirely by pipe stands or pipe racks? I'm aware of the requirements of NFPA 13-16 CH 9.1.1.2. The structural engineer on my project is not eager to get involved so alternative options especially pre-engineered options would be great. I'll push back if there aren't better options but looking for any advice.
I'm also aware of NFPA 13-22 CH 17.5 however 8-0'' tall pipe stands don't seem especially stable. Preferably I'd like a Unistrut solution a contractor can assemble in field and place as required say every 10-0'' ( see pictures) Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project where a greenhouse is being built onto the side of a hardware store to be used as a seasonal retail space occupied during the warm season only (so they say).
The greenhouse is required to be protected by a dry sprinkler system as a retail space. The greenhouse manufacturer has also indicated that it needs to be heated to prevent snow accumulation on the roof, so there are unit heaters ranging from 150 mbh to 200 mbh. Since the roof is entirely glass, I am providing intermediate temperature sprinklers throughout. With the unit heaters, I would be required to put intermediate temperature sprinklers within range of the unit heaters output. Since I am already going intermediate throughout due to solar gain, should I go high temperature at the unit heaters? I'm thinking about very cold winter day when the sun is shining, so there would be two sources of additional heat on the sprinklers. Thank you very much! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a situation where the AHJ is requiring sprinklers be installed per NFPA 13 2019 9.3.14.3. My design is based on the fact that the bottom of the clouds (suspended ceiling panels) is 0'-8" below the ACT above. There are no openings in the ACT. While the Engineers at the AHJ seem to agree with my design, they state there is not a specific exception allowing me to omit the sprinklers above the clouds. When referencing NFPA 13 2019 9.7.2, the expanded material states that historically sprinklers are allowed to be omitted from above the clouds where the cloud is less than 12" from the ceiling above. My question is, how can this be addressed with the AHJ if the scenario for omission in question is not specifically addressed in the standard? Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A municipality in which we work is denying my request to eliminate sprinklers on exterior patios and balconies because of 2018 IBC paragraph 903.3.1.1.1, which states that just because one does not want sprinklers in a room or area for whatever reason if it is normally required to be sprinklered.
Then, two paragraphs later, Section 903.3.1.2.1 the code specifically addresses balconies and patios and goes on to discuss when sprinklers are required as if they are normally not required. How can I explain this? Also, the building is a highrise, I-B construction. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project with a large dry system, installed by another contractor, in a mansard roof that froze and broke.
The insurance company has requested us to replace about 1/3 of the system that was obviously damaged but then confirm that there was no damage to the other portions of the piping and sprinklers. We have suggested replacing the balance of the pipe since a hydro test and a visual inspection is not conclusive that the integrity of some components were not compromised. The AHJ will only state they want an operable system. Any suggestions on how to proceed? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
ALL-ACCESSSUBSCRIBESubscribe and learn something new each day:
COMMUNITYTop March '24 Contributors
YOUR POSTPE EXAMGet 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
FILTERS
All
ARCHIVES
April 2024
PE PREP SERIES |