According to NFPA 13 2022 Section 16.9.8.2 it is to our discretion what we consider a location " where they are not subject to mechanical damage?
When installing a Post Indicator Valve, what do you consider "not subject to mechanical damage?" Where is the line drawn, so to speak? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Has anyone been asked to or required to provide sprinkler protection for at grade parking with PV panels overtop?
I've been looking online for what has been done in other jurisdictions but I can't find much. There is a lot of discussion about whether PV panels constitute a roof or not for parking garages, but my question is more along the lines of has there been research done to determine if the sprinklers can be expected to activate properly based on pitch/spacing? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Had a review comment come back and needed to clarify. I have a 14-inch city main with an 8-inch tap to a backflow in a pit. It then runs to four hydrants, and then turns into the building supplying a fire pump. The flow test at the hydrant near the tap (#1 on image below) was 49 psi static, 47 psi residual at 920 gpm. The flow test at a hydrant nearest the building (#2 on image below) was 49 psi static, 39 psi residual at 750 gpm. The 95 psi @ 1,500 gpm pump in the building is running the underground dry. The plot curve shows 20 psi at 2,100 gpm, however the pump rep said he barely got 500 gpm at 9 pitot and had to shut it down as the gauges went below 20 psi and air was starting to come out of the 2-1/2" hose valves.
This is a mystery to us - we have five different flow tests all ranging from 750 gpm to 1,060 gpm at 40-32 psi residual. Why would the pump be pulling the underground so low? They checked all the valves and rebuilt the backflow in the pit. Water meter is good as well (per the utility department). Looking for suggestions. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have an existing storage warehouse designed with ESLO-20 14.5K sprinklers @ .20/1,500 sqft per the cut sheet.
The owner is installing a "Kardex Autostore" system to 16'-0" high. The existing system calcs out, my question is has anyone designed a system for these "Autostore" systems and do they require anything above an OH2? My thought is bin box storage above 12' design criteria, what's throwing me off is the design criteria in the cut sheet for the sprinkler. Something tells me the existing heads aren't intended for this type of storage. Anything helps, thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe The difference between "Should" and "Shall" statements is clearly understood by most of us.
How about "Shall be permitted" (for instance NFPA 13, 2019 9.3.2.2)? Splitting frog of hairs but I'm guessing that it equates to "May be allowed"? How do you interpret this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can a floating dock standpipe with hose valves in the ocean be ran with PVC pipe?
NFPA 307 doesn’t go into detail about materials used but reverts back to NFPA 20, 22 and 24. This is in Florida. The AHJ wants it full of water so I have to issues, it’s too heavy to mount on the side of the dock, it’s not very big and it will be in the water or very close with high tide, so corrosion is inevitable. Is there anything stating Schedule 40 or 80 PVC is listed or acceptable for such use? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does a trash chute sprinkler riser have to have its own control valve and flow switch?
I've only seen ones with a control valve (ball valve) only. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project with non-gender specific toilet stalls/water closets. I am of the opinion that NFPA 13 does provide an exception for having to install sprinklers within each water closet. However, this project is has the water closets in restrooms which are not within a dwelling unit, so no relaxation is given in NFPA 13 for dwelling unit bathrooms. As I understand NFPA 13, a sprinkler would be required within each of these water closets. Do I believe it’s overkill? Yes, but until it is addressed in NFPA 13, there wouldn’t be much to do about it.
What is your opinion? Non-gender specific toilet facilities are becoming increasingly common, see a conceptual layout below. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 (2019) Section 9.4.3.2 states that quick-response sprinklers shall not be mixed with any standard-response within a compartment unless some conditions apply.
Section 9.4.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within a compartment shall be quick-response unless otherwise permitted in 9.4.3.3, 9.4.3.4, or 9.4.3.5. If a quick-response sprinkler is a type of fast-response sprinkler, then not all fast-response sprinklers are quick response. So my question is: can I mix standard-response with fast-response heads? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project with Miscellaneous Storage of Class I commodities up to 12'-0" and Group A plastics up to 5'-0".
The water supply is a tank fed from a well. Based on NFPA 13-2016 Table 13.2.1, I designed to Ordinary Hazard Group 2 with a 90 minute duration of available water. My original demand was 57 psi at 385 gpm. Our pump supplier provided a vertical in-line pump rated to 80 psi 400 gpm. The client is now unhappy about the volume of water being required so they are removing the Group A plastics from their building so we can calculate to OH I with the new demand being 41.5 psi at 304 gpm. We have already installed most of the system and the pump is ready to be delivered soon. Is it okay to have an oversized pump? Can it be limited to a smaller flow to accommodate the new demand? My worry is that it will flow at the rated capacity and if we are sizing our tanks 10,000 gallons less than originally planned we would run out of water. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a building with an Extra Hazard Group 1 in a fairly rural location. We have an Electric, Diesel and Jockey (electric) pump system.
We had our diesel go out, sent away for repairs. What are the requirements for just having just electric in place? My concern is is the fire department cuts power if they come on site for industrial fire, or lose power due to weather, then we would have no suppression in service. The fire department can provide 1,500 gpm at 100 psi from a Type 1 engine through the FDC, (so 750 gallons). We have a pond to draft from. What would be the considerations? Amount of water available? In the event of power loss, the size of the FDC versus the size of the riser (a 6-8" dry pipe valve)? What would realistic attack line demand be for a hydrant/hose line? Can you think of anything else I'm not thinking of? Thanks in advance for the help! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a minimum clearance requirement in NFPA 13 between structural steel and steel sprinkler pipe?
Area is not subject to earthquakes and the structural engineer want to strap the pipe directly to the steel like CPVC is strapped to wood. I've always been of the understanding that steel pipe must be hung, strapped to Unistrut attached to the structure, or supported on a trapeze, but I can't find where in 13 (if it exists) that says I can't use a strap. Obviously the fittings/couplings will prevent the pipe itself from contacting the steel. Trying to get the pipes as tight as possible to the sloped structural members and even using 1-5/8" unistrut with pipe clamps is getting pushback. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can a flow meter be installed in test header piping?
This is the first time I've ever seen this installation. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am in the process of designing a fire protection system for a whiskey distillery (making of, bottling, shipping & receiving). This project is a full blown distillery with fermenting tanks, barrel filling room, barrel storage etc.
I've looked at NFPA 13 & NFPA 30 as well as some FM Global Data Sheets (7-29 & 7-74) and cannot locate the correct hazard and commodity class to use. I have high piled storage and the storage of flammable liquids. What is the appropriate commodity classification and hazard to use for whiskey barrel storage? Maybe I'm in information overload at this point and looking to deep into it. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a private water main feeding a combined domestic and NFPA 13 system that was specified as C900. They installed SDR21 (6") instead.
They are using the argument that this 200 psi rated pipe will not be subject to the fire system pressure and therefore is ok. I cannot find where this is listed for fire service mains. Any direction? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a specific location requirement for a fire pump test header? NFPA 20 states that the header must be installed on the exterior wall, and outside the fire pump room. Does this mean that the test header cannot be installed in the fire pump room? Additionally, can the test header be directly connected to the pump discharge flange as shown in this photo? I have never seen this type of installation before. Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are working on a new electric car factory. Under the 2018 IBC, it's classified as an F-2 occupancy. Earlier we had provided ESFR sprinklers in these buildings.
Since there is no specific requirement for smoke removal for an F-2 occupancy, we want to provide standard response or quick response sprinklers instead of ESFR, by classifying parts of the building as Ordinary Hazard Group 2 (OH2) in NFPA 13. Is this reasonable for all areas? Production areas? Would an OH2 classified space require smoke removal? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For draft curtains in a warehouse protected by ESFR sprinklers, is there an NFPA standard directing us on the need to fill the gap that occurs between the top of the draft curtain and the underside of the roof deck?
Traditionally I have seen this gap stuffed with mineral wool. If there is an NFPA code reference, though, please share so I can make sure we're going about this correctly. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm working on an apartment that is surrounded by a manufacturing facility. The Fire Marshal is calling it NFPA 13R.
Can I use the new incoming water for domestic for fire as well, like in an NFPA 13D system? The manufacturing facility has its own system, but is attached to the apartment. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a threshold of percentage-opening that would allow sprinklers to be omitted below a grill or something similar - like a metal grated catwalk?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there any adopted or proposed sprinkler design criteria for Electric Vehicle charging stations that will be included in new parking garages?
The 2022 Edition of NFPA 13 is increasing the design for parking garages from Ordinary Hazard Group I to Group II, but I have not found anything about protecting the charging stations. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When is a fire pump pressure relief valve required?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a case where two (2) x 2,000 gpm existing electric fire pumps (primary duty pumps) are available.
Now, the system design demand is increasing from 4,000 gpm to 12,000 gpm due to a scope change, so we are bringing in new electric fire pumps (as primary/duty) to meet the higher demand. All new fire pumps could be either four (4) x 2,000 gpm or two (2) x 4,000 gpm towards meeting the 12,000 gpm system capacity. All performance test curves are checked for all existing fire pumps; they are almost new and meeting the required residual pressure at 2,000 gpm and their performance is close to matching the original equipment manufacturer curves; so these existing pumps need to be retained. Now we do have space constraints, so we'd like to use the two (2) x 4,000 gpm pumps, and their pressure characteristics would be the same as the existing pumps. Would NFPA 13/20 (and any other relevant NFPA standard here) permit two different pump capacities for the system? Would having different pump capacities be concerning, or cause issues? Is there anything else we should be considering here regarding the capacities? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a unique quandary that I haven't run into before. We have an overperforming fire pump.
It was factory tested, we have a factory performance curve of 68 psi churn, 52 psi at 500 gpm (100%), and 35 psi at 750 gpm (150%). Once it was field installed, we were 1-3 psi over on Churn, 50%, and 100%, but +10 psi on the 150%. We had a net pressure of 45 psi at the 150% test when, based on the factory curve, the net should have been 35 psi. We checked the nameplate for the match, nameplate for the expected pressure at 150%; they all match. The supply for the test in the field got pretty low (about 25 psi suction at 150% flow). The only unique thing I can see about this setup is that we have a very tight room and had to meet a military spec to flow through the flowmeter and both run outside as well as back to the recirculation. As a result, the path from the pump discharge to the outside has to navigate through nine (9) elbows in order to get enough clearance upstream and downstream for the flowmeter in this very tiny pump room. Could a test header with that many bends be affecting the net pressure on the 150% test? Is this considered a failure? As this is military, it'll be by the book and I'm concerned that an overperforming pump might set up future tests for failure if I can't identify why it would be overperforming at the 150%. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a new construction building that's wood frame (Type III-B), and we have an 8-inch horizontal standpipe. It's hung from wooden trapeze (two 2x4's) spanning wood floor trusses. Per NFPA 13-2019 Section 17.1.7.1, hangers and their components shall be ferrous metal.
Is a ferrous metal trapeze (steel angle or pipe span) permitted to span wood floor trusses? If so, must the trapeze avoid attaching to the web components of the truss? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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