MeyerFire
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • TOOLKIT
    • ALL TOOLS
    • BUY THE TOOLKIT
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ALL COURSES
    • JOIN THE UNIVERSITY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE PREP SERIES
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
    • TOOLKIT-ONLY LOGIN
    • UNIVERSITY LOGIN
  • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • JOB OPENINGS
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT
Picture

Thrust Block Volume Much Greater than Shape?

8/7/2024

6 Comments

 
MeyerFire has a great thrust block calculator that appears to match NFPA 13’s annex/appendix exactly.
https://www.meyerfire.com/blog/a-new-thrust-block-calculator-part-i
 
How can the thrust block volume fit within the dimensions of the thrust block?
 
The default entries, for example, give a thrust block volume of 57.8 ft³ (NFPA 13 Equation A.6.6.1c), a base height of 2.2 ft, and a base width of 4.27 ft.  This meets the bearing area required by the equations.
 
NFPA 13, Figure A.6.6.1(b) gives the angle between the base of the thrust block and the pipe as 45°. This makes the thrust block a pyramid shape but ends with a pipe instead of coming to a tip. The Figure shows both vertical and horizontal angles as 45°, but that wouldn’t work unless the height and width are equal.  If 45° is the minimum angle, then the width of 4.27 ft would control the distance from the base of the pyramid to the pipe. If each side has a 45° angle, this distance would be half the width or 2.135 ft.  These dimensions can be used with the pyramid volume formula to give another method to check the thrust block volume.
 
The pyramid formula is V = L*W*H/3, which gives a volume of 6.7 ft³.  This is very different from the NFPA equation result.   Even if the thrust block was poured as a cube, its volume would be V = L*W*H, which is 20 ft³ -- still much smaller than the NFPA value. – I am counting the tip of the pyramid, which is part of the pipe, not the thrust block. It would be more accurate to exclude the tip, lowering the required volume slightly, but it would be harder to calculate.
 
If the pyramid were 57.8 ft³ with a bearing area of 2.2 ft by 4.27 ft, then it would need a distance from the pipe of 18 feet.
 
I think there is something wrong with Equation A.6.6.1c in NFPA 13.  It doesn’t make sense that it cancels the thrust force with the weight of the fill material. If you could use some incredibly dense fill material (pretend fantasy fill that is 8670 lb/ft³), then the thrust block volume would be 1 ft³ by that formula, but how is that small thrust block volume going to transfer the thrust forces onto a large enough soil surface? 
Picture
The weight of the thrust block material should not be related to calculating the volume of fill material required.
 
Another issue I see with the equation is that it is suddenly using T = P*A*sin(theta) while all previous formulas were using T = P*A*sin(theta/2). 

Why did the angle change for this formula?

Thanks in advance for any insight you could shed on the difference in volume versus shape with the NFPA formulas.

Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
6 Comments
Pete H
8/7/2024 10:11:54 am

Correct me if I'm wrong... and I very well probably am here, but while the thrust block is pyramid shaped.... isn't it still not a full pyramid? Like isn't the top nub removed?

Would that affect volume?

Reply
Erik B
8/12/2024 09:57:19 am

Yes, that would affect the volume, but as nub has smaller height and base, its volume would be so much smaller as to be insignificant.

Reply
Dan Wilder
8/7/2024 11:43:29 am

I think you're missing that a thrust block is based on two groups...bearing (horizontal forces) and gravity (vertical forces).

The design for bearing blocks is based on bearing area against undisturbed soils. The design for gravity blocks is based on volume.

Table A.10.6.1a and A10.6.1b are designed for area bearing.
Table A.10.6.2c is for the design of the volume needed (as described in A10.6.1b (5))

I don't see a direct requirement for volume when designing bearing thrust blocks with the A10.6.1b list (1)-(4).

Reply
Erik B
8/12/2024 10:33:04 am

That makes it all make a lot more sense.

OK, so the Meyer Fire thrust block volume calculator is showing the picture for a horizontal thrust block, but the equation is for a gravity thrust block which would be used for a vertical change in direction, see NFPA 13 Figure a.6.6.1(c) / NFPA 24 Figure a.10.6.1(c).

Joe, could this be updated on the calculator webpage?

Reply
Jack G
8/7/2024 11:58:40 am

I megalug everything, fully restrained. For underground t.hat is on a pumping system I also utilize thrust blocks.
The picture in 13 , and above would be the least amount of concrete I would use. Concrete is cheap compared to a leak or blowout under fresh asphalt road or concrete parking lot.

Reply
Pete D.
8/8/2024 03:00:04 pm

I use a different thrust block calculator, but this post is timely because I need to size one in the next week. In equation A.6.6.1c, the numerator in the rational expression is exactly the same as the Thrust (T) equation shown in figure A6.6.1(a). If theta is the angle of the fitting, the thrust acts in the direction of the half angle (theta / 2). This is the orientation that the thrust block is formed and poured to provide a normal reaction to the thrust direction.

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    SUBMIT A QUESTION
    Picture
    Why Sponsor?

    ALL-ACCESS

    Picture
    GET ALL OUR TOOLS

    SUBSCRIBE

    Subscribe and learn something new each day:
    I'm Interested In:

    COMMUNITY

    Top Nov '25 Contributors
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    SEE LEADERBOARD

    YOUR POST

    SUBMIT A QUESTION

    PE EXAM

    Get 100 Days of Free Sample Questions right to you!
    SIGN ME UP!

    FILTERS

    All
    A1171
    ABA
    ADA
    ASCE 7
    ASME A17.1
    ASTM E1354
    Blog Thread
    Daily Discussion
    Design-documents
    EN 12259-1
    EN 12845
    Explosion Protection
    Explosion-protection-prevention
    Fire Detection And Alarm Systems
    Fire Dynamics
    Flammable And Combustible Liquids
    Flammable-combustible-liquids
    FM Global
    Human-behavior
    IBC
    ICC 500
    IEBC
    IFC
    IMC
    IPC
    IRC
    ISO
    Means Of Egress
    NBC
    NFPA 1
    NFPA 10
    NFPA 101
    NFPA 11
    NFPA 110
    NFPA 1142
    NFPA 1221
    NFPA 13
    NFPA 13D
    NFPA 13R
    NFPA 14
    NFPA 15
    NFPA 16
    NFPA 17A
    NFPA 20
    NFPA 2001
    NFPA 214
    NFPA 22
    NFPA 220
    NFPA 24
    NFPA 241
    NFPA 25
    NFPA 291
    NFPA 30
    NFPA 307
    NFPA 30B
    NFPA 31
    NFPA 33
    NFPA 37
    NFPA 400
    Nfpa-409
    Nfpa-415
    Nfpa-45
    Nfpa-495
    NFPA 497
    NFPA 5000
    NFPA 502
    NFPA 54
    NFPA 55
    NFPA 654
    NFPA 68
    NFPA 70
    NFPA 701
    NFPA 72
    NFPA 75
    NFPA 770
    NFPA 82
    NFPA 850
    NFPA 855
    NFPA 90A
    NFPA 92
    NFPA 96
    NICET
    OBC
    OSHA
    Passive Building Systems
    PE Prep Guide
    PE Prep Series
    PE Sample Problems
    Poll
    Smoke Management
    Special Hazard Systems
    UFC 3-600-01
    UFC 4-021-01
    UFC 4-211-01
    UPC
    Updates
    Water Based Fire Suppression
    Weekly Exams


    ARCHIVES

    December 2025
    November 2025
    October 2025
    September 2025
    August 2025
    July 2025
    June 2025
    May 2025
    April 2025
    March 2025
    February 2025
    January 2025
    December 2024
    November 2024
    October 2024
    September 2024
    August 2024
    July 2024
    June 2024
    May 2024
    April 2024
    March 2024
    February 2024
    January 2024
    December 2023
    November 2023
    October 2023
    September 2023
    August 2023
    July 2023
    June 2023
    May 2023
    April 2023
    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    November 2016
    October 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016


    PE PREP SERIES

    SEE LEADERBOARD

    RSS Feed

Picture
​Home
Our Cause
The Blog
The Forum
PE Exam Prep
The Toolkit

MeyerFire University
​Pricing
Login
​Support
Contact Us
Picture

MeyerFire.com is a startup community built to help fire protection professionals shine.
Our goal is to improve fire protection practices worldwide. We promote the industry by creating helpful tools and resources, and by bringing together industry professionals to share their expertise.

​MeyerFire, LLC is a NICET Recognized Training Provider and International Code Council Preferred Education Provider.

All text, images, and media ​Copyright © 2016-2025 MeyerFire, LLC

We respect your privacy and personal data. See our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. 
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence.

Discussions are solely for the purpose of peer review and the exchange of ideas. All comments are reviewed. Comments which do not contribute, are not relevant, are spam, or are disrespectful in nature may be removed. Information presented and opinions expressed should not be relied upon as a replacement for consulting services. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a small commission for orders placed elsewhere.

  • Blog
  • Forum
  • TOOLKIT
    • ALL TOOLS
    • BUY THE TOOLKIT
  • UNIVERSITY
    • ALL COURSES
    • JOIN THE UNIVERSITY
  • PE Exam
    • PE Forum & Errata
    • PE Store
    • PE Tools
    • PE PREP SERIES
    • PE 100-Day Marathon
  • LOGIN
    • TOOLKIT-ONLY LOGIN
    • UNIVERSITY LOGIN
  • STORE
  • OUR CAUSE
    • ABOUT MEYERFIRE
    • JOB OPENINGS
    • BECOME AN INSTRUCTOR
    • HELP/SUPPORT