Pipe to Sprinkler in Elevator Pit Run Along Wall?

1/28/2025

We have a two floor building with a hydraulic elevator that is required to have sprinkler protection. Getting to the sprinkler in the pit from first floor is not possible.

My question is, can we feed the sprinkler in the pit from the second floor?

Just pick a corner and pipe along the wall?

The elevator inspector is telling us that our pipe can not run along the wall in the hoistway. How true is this?

Is there circumstances where pipe can run up or down the hoistway, per code?

Thanks in advance.

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7 Comments

Pete H

1/28/2025 06:49:13 am

Let's check ASME A17 (2016)

Part 3 Hydraulic Elevators

Section 3.8 Electrical Equipment, Wiring, Pipes, and Ducts in Hoistway, Machinery Spaces, Machine Rooms, Control Spaces, and Control Rooms

Electrical Equipment, wiring, pipes, and ducts shall conform to section 2.8.

-----------------

2.8.1 Equipment Allowed
Only machinery and equipment used directly in connection with the elevator shall be permitted in elevator hoistways, machinery spaces, machine rooms, and control rooms.

[Okay, this could be an issue, it depends on whether the AHJ is willing to accept that a sprinkler protecting an elevator is used directly in connection with said elevator.]

2.8.3 Pipes, Ducts, Tanks, and Sprinklers
2.8.3.3 Sprinkler systems conforming to NFPA 13 or the NBCC, whichever is applicable (see Part 9) shall be permitted to be installed in the hoistway, machinery space, machine room, control space, or control room, subject to 2.8.3.3.1 through 2.8.3.3.4

2.8.3.3.1 All risers shall be located outside these spaces. Branch lines in the hoistway shall supply sprinklers at not more than one floor level. When the machinery space, machine room, control space, or control room is located above the roof of the building, risers and branch lines for these sprinklers shall be permitted to be located in the hoistway between the top floor and the machinery space, machine room, control space, or control room.

2.8.3.3.2 In jurisdictions not enforcing the NBCC, where elevator equipment is located or its enclosure is configured such that the application of water from sprinklers could cause unsafe elevator operation, means shall be provided to automatically disconnect the main line power supply to the affected elevator and any other power supplies used to move the elevator upon or prior to the application of water.
(a) This means shall be independent of the elevator control and shall not be self-resetting.
(b) Heat detectors and sprinkler flow switches used to initiate main line elevator power shutdown shall comply with the requirements of NFPA 72.
(c) The activation of sprinklers outside such locations shall not disconnect the main line elevator power supply. See also 2.27.3.3.6

2.8.3.3.3 Smoke detectors shall not be used to activate sprinklers in these spaces or to disconnect the main line power supply.

2.8.3.3.4 In jurisdictions not enforcing the NBCC, when sprinklers are installed not more than 600 mm/24 in. above the pit floor, 2.8.3.3.4 (a) and (b) apply to elevator electrical equipment and wiring in the hoistway located less than 12000 mm (48 in.) above the pit floor, except earthquake protective devices conforming to 8.4.10.1.2(e), and on the exterior of the car at the point where the car platform and the lowest landing hoistway door are still in vertical alignment.
(a) Elevator electrical equipment shall be weather-proof (Type 4 as specified in NEMA 250)
(b) Elevator wiring, except traveling cables, shall be identified for use in wet locations according with the requirements in NFPA 70.

--------------

Glenn Berger

1/28/2025 08:08:57 am

Kudos to Pete for providing the text from the Elevator Code. Talk to the Elevator Inspector about the project specifics and obtain their concurrence or let the Fire AHJ and the Elevator AHJ hash it out.

Chad

1/28/2025 10:15:53 am

Not possible or just reallllly difficult? I kind of wonder which one

Jack G

1/28/2025 10:17:06 am

Agree with above comments.
What I ve done in the past is to drop the line to the ground floor level ,just outside the shaft. Penetrate the shaft wall, then protect the pit with a sidewall 2 feet above the floor. ( enclose the drop within a box or shaft wall as long as the rating can be maintained ) —( not inside the shaft)
Since water technically cannot spray on wiring, shunt trip relay is not required for the pit sprinkler ( just top of shaft and elevator equipment room . )
The AHJ may see this as a compromise ( even though piping in the shaft is permitted) and not be so head strong.

Jon N

1/28/2025 11:32:12 am

Any chance that you could request or propose an alternate using the 2025 edition of NFPA 13 where sprinkler protection is no longer required in most elevator shafts, pits or machine rooms. Personally, I am a big sprinkler advocate, but elevator fires are a pretty rare event and the data may not support all of the effort and expense involved. Even when they happen, the data shows that they are often inside the car (which is a great big obstruction to any sprinklers that may be present at the top of the shaft). From 2017-2021, there were 195 elevator-related building fires in the U.S. (less than 40 per year out of ~400,000 building fires per year). 75% of the time, the fire was contained to the object of origin or the room of origin (mostly the elevator shaft or machine room). About 1/3 of the elevator fires had fire sprinklers present but sprinklers only operated and controlled the fire in 7 fires (less than 2 per year).

Todd E Wyatt

1/29/2025 07:17:52 am

The scoping Code (e.g. IBC-2021) determines where an automatic sprinkler system (ASPS) is to be installed ...

IBC-2021
Chapter 9 Fire Protection and Life Safety Systems
Section 903 Automatic Sprinkler Systems
903.2 Where Required
Approved automatic sprinkler systems in new buildings and structures shall be provided in the locations described in Sections 903.2.1 through 903.2.12.

... and where an ASPS is exempted (include 2 ELEVATOR references) :

IBC-2021
Chapter 9 Fire Protection and Life Safety Systems
Section 903 Automatic Sprinkler Systems
903.3 Installation Requirements
903.3.1 Standards
903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 Sprinkler Systems
Where the provisions of this code require that a building or portion thereof be equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with this section, sprinklers shall be installed throughout in accordance with NFPA 13 except as provided in Sections 903.3.1.1.1 and 903.3.1.1.2.
903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 Sprinkler Systems
903.3.1.1.1 EXEMPT LOCATIONS
Automatic sprinklers shall not be required in the following rooms or areas where such rooms or areas are protected with an approved automatic fire detection system in accordance with Section 907.2 that will respond to visible or invisible particles of combustion. Sprinklers shall not be omitted from a room merely because it is damp, of fire-resistance-rated construction or contains electrical equipment.
1. A room where the application of water, or flame and water, constitutes a serious life or fire hazard.
2. A room or space where sprinklers are considered undesirable because of the nature of the contents, where approved by the fire code official.
3. Generator and transformer rooms separated from the remainder of the building by walls and floor/ceiling or roof/ceiling assemblies having a fire-resistance rating of not less than 2 hours.
4. Rooms or areas that are of noncombustible construction with wholly noncombustible contents.
5. FIRE SERVICE ACCESS ELEVATOR MACHINE ROOMS AND MACHINERY SPACES.
6. MACHINE ROOMS, MACHINERY SPACES, CONTROL ROOMS AND CONTROL SPACES ASSOCIATED WITH OCCUPANT EVACUATION ELEVATORS DESIGNED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 3008.
903.3.1.1.2 Bathrooms
In Group R occupancies sprinklers shall not be required in bathrooms that do not exceed 55 square feet (5 m2) in area and are located within individual dwelling units or sleeping units, provided that walls and ceilings, including the walls and ceilings behind a shower enclosure or tub, are of noncombustible or limited-combustible materials with a 15-minute thermal barrier rating.

The referenced standard (e.g. NFPA 13) determines how the ASPS (as required per the scoping Code) is to be designed, installed, tested, and maintained.

The referenced standard (e.g. NFPA 13) also include “OMISSION LOCATIONS” …

NFPA 13 - 2019
9.2 Allowable Sprinkler OMISSION LOCATIONS.

ENHANCED CONTENT
Section 9.2 contains a consolidated list of specific locations where sprinklers can be omitted. It was developed to consolidate all the specific allowances that were scattered throughout Chapter 8 of the 2016 edition.

Section 9.2 can be expected to be a very active part of NFPA 13 during future revision cycles. It is the one section where the basic principle of NFPA 13 — that sprinklers must be installed throughout the premises — is allowed to be altered. During each code development cycle, the Technical Committee on Sprinkler System Installation acts on inputs and comments seeking to “excuse” a specific portion of a building from the requirements of sprinkler protection due to a special situation. The case is typically made that, under certain conditions, the presence of sprinklers does not provide any greater protection, and the omission of sprinklers in these specific areas and spaces within a building should be permitted. (Section 9.3 identifies those spaces and conditions.)

It is important to note the following two points regarding Section 9.2:
1. It is imperative that when the elimination of sprinklers from a space based on this section is being considered, the space must comply exactly with the description and requirements found within the applicable paragraph(s). In other words, any deviation from the description in the applicable paragraph negates its application, and, as a result, the space must be sprinklered.
2. If a space is not specifically detailed in this section, it is intended to be protected by sprinklers under 9.1.1(1).

9.2.1 Concealed Spaces Not Requiring Sprinkler Protection.
9.2.2 Spaces Under Ground Floors, Exterior Docks, and Platforms.
9.2.3 Exterior Projections.
9.2.4 Dwelling Units.
9.2.5 Hospital Clothes Closets.

9.2.6 Sprinklers shall not be required in electrical equipment rooms where all of the following conditions are met ...
9.2.7 Cloud Ceilings.
9.2.8 Revolving Doors Enclosures.
9.2.10 Equipment Enclosures.
9.2.11 NONCOMBUSTIBLE VERTICAL SHAFTS.
9.2.12 Noncombustible Stairways.

9.2.13 Elevator H

Todd Wyatt

1/29/2025 07:18:44 am

Continued ...

9.2.13 Elevator Hoistways and Machine Rooms.
9.2.14 Duct Protection.
9.2.15 Open-Grid Ceilings.
9.2.16 Drop-Out Ceilings.
9.2.17 Skylights.

… although some AHJs will (should) revert back to the scoping Code as to where an ASPS is required and where it can be omitted.

Chapter 35 Referenced Standards
User note:
This chapter lists the standards that are referenced in various sections of this document. The standards are listed herein by the promulgating agency of the standard, the standard identification, the effective date and title, and the section or sections of this document that reference the standard. The APPLICATION OF THE REFERENCED STANDARDS shall be as specified in Section 102.4.

IBC-2021
Chapter 1 Scope and Administration
Section 102 Applicability
102.4 Referenced Codes and Standards
The codes and standards referenced in this code shall be considered to be part of the requirements of this code to the PRESCRIBED EXTENT OF EACH SUCH REFERENCE and as further regulated in Sections 102.4.1 and 102.4.2.
102.4.1 Conflicts
WHERE CONFLICTS OCCUR between provisions of this code and referenced codes and standards, the PROVISIONS OF THIS CODE SHALL APPLY.
102.4.2 Provisions in Referenced Codes and Standards
Where the EXTENT OF THE REFERENCE TO A REFERENCED CODE OR STANDARD includes subject matter that is within the SCOPE OF THIS CODE or the International Codes specified in Section 101.4, the PROVISIONS OF THIS CODE or the International Codes specified in Section 101.4, as applicable, shall take PRECEDENCE OVER THE PROVISIONS IN THE REFERENCED CODE OR STANDARD.

Pipe to Sprinkler in Elevator Pit Run Along Wall?

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