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A number of board and care facilities have missing hydraulic placards. It's possible they never had them since the sprinkler system was installed before placards were required.
They are now required, and I wonder if it would be a viable option to survey the system, get pipe diameters and sprinkler counts, and see if they fit within the criteria of the pipe schedule method? If it does, would there be any issues stating so on the hydraulic placard? The board and care facilities range from 3 - 16 bedrooms and no more than 2 stories high. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
14 Comments
Pete H
5/30/2025 05:56:58 am
Check with your AHJ, as this ultimately comes down to enforcement: but if the system is old enough that it was originally designed a s a pipe schedule system and is not being modified sufficiently to require a calculation... what else would you write? It's the truth.
Chad
5/30/2025 08:23:34 am
There are a whole lot of companies compelling owners to get a re-calc on systems with missing placards and no records available. Its a fail and they wont ignore it... AHJ/FM be damned. They have all caught on so vendor shopping does not help Its a racket but its technically correct.
jakob cirell
5/30/2025 08:43:47 am
In this case, without knowing whether it's a pipe schedule design or by hydraulic calculation, if through a survey you determine it fits the pipe schedule method, would it be within reason to assume the system was a pipe schedule system and put up a "pipe schedule" placard?
NICET4
5/30/2025 08:13:18 am
From NFPA #25 2017 Edition"
Richard W Mercer
5/30/2025 08:24:52 am
I work for a State Agency that manages a number of Residential Board and Care homes. To address the placard issue back in 2010 we provided a Placard which stated Design Type "Pipe Schedule System" with Design date. I do have a Sign Template.
Ronnie M.
5/30/2025 08:21:40 am
Recommend performing a records request to find original drawing to confirm the system is a pipe schedule system. When confirmed install a new sign.
Glenn Berger
5/30/2025 08:25:59 am
In the 2025 version of NFPA 13 - This requirement is covered in Chapter 29.5.
Dan Wilder
5/30/2025 08:35:02 am
Yes, it is OK to put it on a Hydraulic Placard however, without the original plans, there are several hydraulically calculated systems that look like the pipe schedule system simply because the designers defaulted to the threaded reductions out of habit.
Anthony
5/30/2025 09:13:34 am
Yeah, the 3.5 and 5'' pipe is a dead giveaway
Jesse
5/30/2025 09:07:19 am
One of the first things I teach young designers is how to recognize a pipe-schedule system. While its not a method we use anymore, there are a lot of pipe-schedule systems out there.
KATHARINE ACHOR
5/30/2025 10:19:15 am
As a former AHJ, I expected the system be properly identified. If there have been no changes (building additions) to an older pipe schedule system, then that is all that is necessary. Great references given in the comments section. This is a good opportunity to promote keeping the as-builts...
Jack G
5/30/2025 04:05:38 pm
Pipe schedule systems are grandfathered and unless the occupancy has changed , there is no need to “ calculate it “.
Jack G
5/30/2025 04:09:52 pm
And with quarterly, and annual inspections using the pipe schedule minimums it is easy to determine a flow/ pressure probably. 5/30/2025 07:53:10 pm
Are there as-built sprinkler documents available. The AHJ should have them as part of the building history records as required here in NYS. Leave a Reply. |
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