How to Tell Open/Shut for Non-Indicating Valve?

7/9/2025

How do I know if these valves are open or closed without using the signage present that says OPEN?

Are these non-indicating valves, or am I missing something? Are these even allowed?

Thanks in advance.

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16 Comments

Pete H

7/9/2025 06:36:46 am

Try turning the valve to the right. If it won't turn, it's closed.

Try turning the valve to the left. If it won't turn, it's open.

There is probably a better way to do this.

7/9/2025 08:08:01 am

Is there no sight glass on the valve? The top left valve looks to have a sight glass. There should be a visual indicator of "SHUT" or "CLOSED"

Jesse link

7/9/2025 08:08:44 am

Those look like indicating valves (WPIV). The one in the top left seems to have the window where it will say OPEN or SHUT. Agree that they arene't "indicating" at first glance ast that distance

Anthony

7/9/2025 08:29:36 am

Great catch Jesse, I agree that window should indicated open/closed. Now the quality and functionality of that unit I don't think we can comment on.

Glenn Berger

7/9/2025 08:16:18 am

If these valves are a wall-type PIV assemblies then would qualify as an indicating valves. The wall flange is what I am clueing in on.

Todd E Wyatt

7/9/2025 08:28:07 am

NFPA 13-2022 requires "listed indicating valves" unless the requirements of 16.9.3.2.1, 16.9.3.2.2, or 16.9.3.2.3 are met :

Chapter 16 Installation of Piping, Valves, and Appurtenances
16.9.3* Control Valves.
16.9.3.1* General.
16.9.3.1.1
Each sprinkler system shall be provided with a listed indicating valve in an accessible location, so located as to control all automatic sources of water supply.
16.9.3.1.2
At least one listed indicating valve shall be installed in each source of water supply.
16.9.3.2 Listed Indicating Valves.
Unless the requirements of 16.9.3.2.1, 16.9.3.2.2, or 16.9.3.2.3 are met, all valves controlling connections to water supplies and to supply pipes to sprinklers shall be LISTED INDICATING VALVES.
16.9.3.2.1
A listed underground gate valve equipped with a LISTED INDICATOR POST shall be permitted.
16.9.3.2.2
A listed water control valve assembly with a RELIABLE POSITION INDICATION connected to a remote supervisory station shall be permitted.
16.9.3.2.3
A nonindicating valve, such as an underground gate valve with approved roadway box, complete with T-wrench, and WHERE ACCEPTED BY THE AUTHORITY HAVING JURISDICTION, shall be permitted.

Enhanced Content
All valves controlling the flow of water to sprinklers must be listed and must incorporate a METHOD TO READILY DETERMINING WHETHER THE VALVE IS OPEN, unless the valves meet the conditions of 16.9.3.2.1, 16.9.3.2.2, or 16.9.3.2.3. The means of indicating the valve’s position can be part of the valve itself, such as a rising stem, as indicated in Exhibit 16.23, or a feature of the assembly, as illustrated in Exhibit 16.24.

Brian F.

7/9/2025 08:44:11 am

WPIV, as stated, target window tells the story, also, are the tamper switches in operation? If so, they will send a trouble alarm if someone attempts to close a valve.

Jack G

7/9/2025 08:44:57 am

They are all indicating wall post indicator valves.
Look on handle for close/ open position. Check window for open / close.
Sometimes the target inside the valve malfunctions and the exterior post must be disassembled in order to set up the target( open/ close) to sync withe the proper position for the valve .

Franck

7/9/2025 08:48:37 am

Looks like wall PIV and as indicated by JO & Jesse, they probably have a window with the indication open/shut.
In addition, they are all padlocked (we may rely on the fact that the person who put the padlock has checked the correct position before) and they are all apparently supervised.

If any doubt subsist, you can still try to open/close as indicated by Pete. This will confirm their actual position.

Tom R.

7/9/2025 09:55:12 am

Definitely appears to have indicating windows on the side. Also check clarity of sign and window. usually over time sign and window gets cloudy and faded. I make them usually touch up the sign and replace the window. All valves should be visible and inspected per NFPA 25. When they have their annual test this should be written up as a deficiency. Also the IFC requires tampers so chains and lock are not necessary; however most insurance companies still mandate chains. A key for the padlock could be put in the fire department lock box and tagged.

Jose R Figueroa

7/9/2025 10:04:29 am

These PIV valves are installed horizontally and must have a sight glass indicating whether they are OPEN or CLOSED. Follow Pete H's instructions for the annual inspections. These valves are equipped with chains and tamper-proof alarms.

Randy Kimbro

7/9/2025 12:20:10 pm

NFPA 13 (2020) states:
Table 13.11.1 Summary of Component Action Requirements
Post indicator and wall indicator valves
(4) Verify target visibility at shut and full open position

As an AHJ, if we cannot read the indicator through the sight glass as we walk toward the PIV, it is a failure and must be repaired. Sometimes that is just replacing the glass itself, other times it is repainting the white letters. On occasion it has meant the valve is malfunctioning and the PIV needed to be replaced (rare).

James Art, Fire Protection Engineer

7/9/2025 01:38:01 pm

The padlocks are often special "breakaway" locks,
that can be broken by the Fire Dept, or the owner only AFTER the fire is out, to close the valves.
You can tell by looking for grooves on the shackle.
This discourages accidentally or some malicious closing.
Closed valves are the primary cause of fire sprinkler system failures.

George Snow link

7/9/2025 01:39:28 pm

Those valves are Outside Stem and Yoke valves. The OS & Y valve is a configuration common in control valves that serve fire sprinkler and standpipe systems. Also, they are common in several industrial applications. OS & Y means 'outside stem and yoke' or 'outside screw and yoke', and it has this name because of its distinctive design features. When the center stem is out (visible) the valve is open, no center stem, the valve is closed.

Jeff

7/13/2025 08:51:54 am

Do a main drain test on each valve, unlock the chain. Turn each wheel either way to decide which direction opens or closes.Some valves are left open, some are right open.Use a yellow paint pen and write the direction of OPEN with an ARROW on each wheel. Now you know that if the wheel doesn’t turn it’s fully open. Relock the chain.

Jose R Figueroa

7/13/2025 09:58:24 am

A+

Yes, a situation very common in Europe & South America

How to Tell Open/Shut for Non-Indicating Valve?

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