I've been seven years in the chair, and the most thankless job I encounter on every project is - reviewing the site utility plan and picking it apart.
I've now made my own rule that I will only point the civil engineer's mistakes once, early in the project, and when it comes time to stack the riser, pressure test, etc, all I can say is "I pointed that out to you on Aug 11 2020 email." Am I going about this the wrong way? SHould I even be investing energy into correcting the engineer with the stamp? Recent example is a two story building with concrete tees. We're adding third and fourth floors from new structural members. The underground man took the site utility and started digging. Check valve was exposed above ground (supposed to be in pit) and the FDC was connected to the underground on the system side of the backflow preventer. Now he has to dig it up, cap the tee after the backflow preventer, and run it around and inside the building. The job requires a small pump (CL1 manual wet standpipe), and the underground man wasn't happy. All I was doing was point out wrong installations before it was too late. I'm always left thinking, "this isn't even in my scope of work, but it affects everything downstream." Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
11 Comments
Michael Ruck
12/30/2020 09:13:51 am
You do what is right to protect the public health and safety. It's the number 1 responsibility of an engineer.
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Alex Jenness
12/30/2020 09:18:28 am
Agreed. Projects are a team sport. While you're not expected to hand-hold someone else's scope we're all responsible to point out errors we see. It's all intertwined. The civil affects my work, my work affects the structural, and on and on.
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Jose Cruz
12/30/2020 12:15:34 pm
What you did is a good engineering practice, at the start up of a project that includes FPS, I use to call a meeting with other trades contractors, trying to make them aware of the rules at the least of NFPA, regarding, mainly obstructions, underground pipe depth, an so on.
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Jonathan Sullivan
12/30/2020 09:24:21 am
100% agree with Michael. I appreciate comments on my designs (hvac, fire protection, and plumbing) from any team member whether they're in the field or at the desk. I usually end up learning something new or adding a new item to a design checklist.
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Glenn Berger
12/30/2020 09:43:33 am
Teamwork and documentation!
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Casey Milhorn
12/30/2020 10:18:14 am
Great comments. Definitely takes a team. These type of mistakes are fairly common where we are and as a sprinkler contractor, we usually end up being the last line of defense, whether we are doing the underground or not. Curious if your area has a requirement for the fire line to be installed by a licensed fire sprinkler contractor. That has helped to alleviate some of the issues in our area. FDC locations seem so simple to us because we understand the purpose of them, unfortunately it's like black magic to a lot of the site utility contractors. They think that we just make up the location as we go along. Keep educating everyone and fighting the good fight. All you can do.
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HJ
12/30/2020 11:24:26 am
Yes, you should look at the civil plans.
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Pete D.
12/30/2020 03:26:51 pm
The A&E firm or Architect of record, whoever submits the package to planning, should allow time for interdisciplinary review. Many states, such as TX and TN require that the UG sprinkler work be done by a licensed sprinkler company, that is, no Joe the plumber. If that is the case, there will be a FP sheet for underground sprinkler pipe, and I insist that my design is mirrored on the civil site utility plan. It has to be coordinated for clearance to high voltage, etc.
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Tony Brownanthonycert@yahoo.
1/2/2021 08:31:10 pm
I always review Site Plans and Mech. plans to make sure that I won't have unforseen "gotchas" down the road. I also make it my policy that i will size the Fire Sprinkler service. Last Project that I am working on was asked to submit a letter as to why the Project couldn't have just one service especially seeing the the big name NYCEngineering Firm (I'm a tiny mname firm, there are three of us) had down a 3/4" service for both fire and domestic. The Project is a 4 story (Cellar and three floors) residence with a portable design flow of 180 gpm. That was a fun letter I wrote...
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Mike M
1/3/2021 09:23:58 pm
Great Responses!
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Chad P.
2/8/2021 03:01:00 pm
As a fellow AHJ it infuriates me that licensed RDP's, despite the fact that they are supposed to check all drawings that bares their stamp, they rarely do and, get pissy when we call their blatantly obvious mistakes out.
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