Do Other Consultants Review Site Utility Plans?

12/30/2020

I've been seven years in the chair, and the most thankless job I encounter on every project is - reviewing the site utility plan and picking it apart.

I've now made my own rule that I will only point the civil engineer's mistakes once, early in the project, and when it comes time to stack the riser, pressure test, etc, all I can say is "I pointed that out to you on Aug 11 2020 email."

Am I going about this the wrong way? SHould I even be investing energy into correcting the engineer with the stamp?

Recent example is a two story building with concrete tees. We're adding third and fourth floors from new structural members. The underground man took the site utility and started digging. Check valve was exposed above ground (supposed to be in pit) and the FDC was connected to the underground on the system side of the backflow preventer. Now he has to dig it up, cap the tee after the backflow preventer, and run it around and inside the building. The job requires a small pump (CL1 manual wet standpipe), and the underground man wasn't happy. All I was doing was point out wrong installations before it was too late.

I'm always left thinking, "this isn't even in my scope of work, but it affects everything downstream."

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Michael Ruck

12/30/2020 09:13:51 am

You do what is right to protect the public health and safety. It's the number 1 responsibility of an engineer.

You are all on the same design team. Note the errors in a field report. The owner reads those reports. He'll appreciate the fact that it was caught before it became a bigger problem.

Alex Jenness

12/30/2020 09:18:28 am

Agreed. Projects are a team sport. While you're not expected to hand-hold someone else's scope we're all responsible to point out errors we see. It's all intertwined. The civil affects my work, my work affects the structural, and on and on.

I've also learned that we're all fallible. A stamp or a certification doesn't mean you won't miss something. What's important is that errors are caught, fixed and we learn from what we can.

Jose Cruz

12/30/2020 12:15:34 pm

What you did is a good engineering practice, at the start up of a project that includes FPS, I use to call a meeting with other trades contractors, trying to make them aware of the rules at the least of NFPA, regarding, mainly obstructions, underground pipe depth, an so on.

Jonathan Sullivan

12/30/2020 09:24:21 am

100% agree with Michael. I appreciate comments on my designs (hvac, fire protection, and plumbing) from any team member whether they're in the field or at the desk. I usually end up learning something new or adding a new item to a design checklist.

Yes, it can be exhausting to repeat yourself. At the end of the day, your client (and their budget) will appreciate it, and usually the person on the other end will to.

Glenn Berger

12/30/2020 09:43:33 am

Teamwork and documentation!

Do not get complacent.

Casey Milhorn

12/30/2020 10:18:14 am

Great comments. Definitely takes a team. These type of mistakes are fairly common where we are and as a sprinkler contractor, we usually end up being the last line of defense, whether we are doing the underground or not. Curious if your area has a requirement for the fire line to be installed by a licensed fire sprinkler contractor. That has helped to alleviate some of the issues in our area. FDC locations seem so simple to us because we understand the purpose of them, unfortunately it's like black magic to a lot of the site utility contractors. They think that we just make up the location as we go along. Keep educating everyone and fighting the good fight. All you can do.

12/30/2020 11:24:26 am

Yes, you should look at the civil plans.

To clarify, the FDC must be on the sprinkler system side of the backflow preventer. There can be no shutoff valve between the FDC and the riser. Not sure if that is what you meant.

Pete D.

12/30/2020 03:26:51 pm

The A&E firm or Architect of record, whoever submits the package to planning, should allow time for interdisciplinary review. Many states, such as TX and TN require that the UG sprinkler work be done by a licensed sprinkler company, that is, no Joe the plumber. If that is the case, there will be a FP sheet for underground sprinkler pipe, and I insist that my design is mirrored on the civil site utility plan. It has to be coordinated for clearance to high voltage, etc.

Tony Brownanthonycert@yahoo.

1/2/2021 08:31:10 pm

I always review Site Plans and Mech. plans to make sure that I won't have unforseen "gotchas" down the road. I also make it my policy that i will size the Fire Sprinkler service. Last Project that I am working on was asked to submit a letter as to why the Project couldn't have just one service especially seeing the the big name NYCEngineering Firm (I'm a tiny mname firm, there are three of us) had down a 3/4" service for both fire and domestic. The Project is a 4 story (Cellar and three floors) residence with a portable design flow of 180 gpm. That was a fun letter I wrote...

Mike M

1/3/2021 09:23:58 pm

Great Responses!

When do we stop doing the QA/QC for an engineering / architectural firm? Is that our job? I have been a fire marshal for over 12 years and I recently asked a licensed architect why I am teaching the code, and doing quality control work for a person that makes 200 more dollars an hour than I do. He replied that most of the mistakes come from the 12 dollar an hour intern or drafts person, not the architect. I am not sure this is true, and I am also not sure I should except this type of business model. I rely on my third party consultants to help get the construction documents in line. They are a valuable asset to have, so as a building official...THANK YOU! for checking those civil sheets.

Chad P.

2/8/2021 03:01:00 pm

As a fellow AHJ it infuriates me that licensed RDP's, despite the fact that they are supposed to check all drawings that bares their stamp, they rarely do and, get pissy when we call their blatantly obvious mistakes out.

Unfortunately, most licensing entities do not care to take action against sloppy work, we we're told not to bother filing complaints and after reading the responses to other AHJ complaints I see why, no one cares. Well until its so egregious, causes a big dollar or life loss.

No one is perfect but a lot of those firms just do not care and downshift 100% of the liability to the subs doing the work. Its sad that there is so much apathy and lack of pride in work.

Do Other Consultants Review Site Utility Plans?

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