Change Elevator Hydraulic Fluid Permanently?

2/9/2021

I am building out a space that has been vacant for multiple years. The space has a hydraulic elevator that travels 1 floor. There is a sub that is ushering the elevator contractor through the certificate milestone with all the adjacent trades.

He has proposed to change out the Class III-B hydraulic fluid with a Hydro-Safe or equivalent non-combustible fluid in order to work around the NFPA 13 requirement for a pit sprinkler and pit detection to be installed.

My question is, does swapping the petrol-based fluid to a bio-equivalent have any long-term effects on the pump, pistol, seals, gaskets, etc.?

Also, how do I make sure this is the fluid that remains in use for the life of the certificate?

Sent in anonymously for discussion. Discuss This | Submit Your Question | Subscribe

5 Comments

Jesse

2/9/2021 09:19:23 am

Good question, but I'd have some concerns.

First, Hydro Safe doesn't have a non-combustible hydraulic oil for elevator application. They have a "fire resistive" product. It's not just semantics, fire resistive isn't the same as non-combustible. That particular oil is still going to be a Class IIIB Combustible Liquid, and protection ill still be needed. The larger risk is in the atomized mist and finely divided droplet size.

Secondly, I'd be cautious about voiding a warranty or listing of the elevator by changing oils.

Food for thought.

Michael M

2/9/2021 11:32:06 am

Agree with Jesse.

You may want to read the SDS and specification data of Hydro Safe. They discuss that Factory Mutual states that the oil as "less hazardous" but do not claim its non-combustible. I think they are trying to convey that it is less combustible than other oils. I haven’t been able to find an elevator oil that is non-combustible, but always hear from the industry that they are out there. The elusive white whale...

CJ Bonczyk

2/9/2021 09:54:49 am

Be advised that sprinklers shall be installed at the top and bottom of elevator hoistways where elevators utilize polyurethane-coated steel belts or other similar combustible belt material. Secondly the sprinkler in the pit can only be removed as well if the shaft is noncombustible, fully enclosed, and does not contain combustible fluids. I would proceed as follows.... First go straight to the manufacturer of the oil and obtain the SDS sheets of the exact type of oil being used. More than likely you will find out it is combustible to some degree requiring the need for sprinkler protection. Speak with the elevator installation contractor to provide cutsheet submittals for the equipment being installed for the elevator. The oil will have a specific set of specifications along with the SDS sheets. The elevator equipment submittals should state if the oil is compatible with the equipment or not. If it's compatible then you can always call the manufacturer of the oil and see if they can provide any testing data for the oil. Also, you can verify if swapping of these oils causes a warranty violation for the elevator. You probably won't get much test data on the oil from the elevator manufacturer. However, the elevator manufacturer could provided you with documentation about various service life of the components themselves. As to making sure the fluid remains in use for the life of the certificate....I would guess that would depend on how the protocol is set up for the elevator to be inspected & maintained with record documentation. By speaking with both manufacturers for the oil and elevator you should obtain a decent amount of information about your inquiries. Just my two pennies...

Franck

2/9/2021 10:28:23 am

You can check, if you have the information for the oil (name, brand...) on FM Global approval guide:

https://www.approvalguide.com/

Normaly, if the fluid is approved as a fire resistant industrial fluid, most insurance companies (and obviously FM Global) will consider that there is no need for fire protection if there is no other combustible nearby.
These fluids will auto extinguish, even pulverized at high pressure.
But it is also true that they will burn at a certain temperature if there is something else burning in the same area (they will participate to the fuel load). The main difference with common oil is that the flash point is at a higher temperature.
For example, in a steel mill with liquid metal, the temperature is such that even fire resistive oil will burn if touched by the melted metal.

Again, this will depend on the opinion of your AHJ and his knowledge/trust in FM approved products.

Regarding the long term use, this is a more complex question. Normally, most approved oils are working as "normal" oil and there is limited changes that you need to make on your equipment.
But sometimes, because it is slightly different, it may affect seals or other components.
Normally, the supplier of the oil should be able to answer your concerns and tell you need some changes.

In all cases, it is always better to have an approved hydraulic fluid than a non-approved, even if you protect your area with sprinklers.

Note anyway that some fluids (such as Fyrquel, for example) may have an adverse effect on health if you inhalate it.

Brian Gerdwagen FPE

2/9/2021 01:29:19 pm

I always specify the pit sprinkler, regardless of elevator type, because of the potential for the accumulation of debris.

The sprinkler at the top may be eliminated based on other factors.

Free Signup

Subscribe and learn something new each day:

Community

Thank You to Our Top
February '21 Contributors!

1. Dan W.
2. Franck
3. Jesse
4. CJ B.
5. Brian G.

6. Mike
7. Matt
8. Casey M.
9. Jay R.
10. Glenn B.

Your Post

SUBMIT A QUESTION

The Toolkit

Sprinkler Designer or Engineer?

Get all of our tools, including the Sprinkler Database, Friction Loss Calculator, Fire Pump Analyzer and more:

FREE 30-DAY TRIAL

GET THE TOOLKIT

Why Sponsor?

Filters

Exam Prep

2020 PE Prep Guide
(Available Now!)

PE Prep Series
(Available Now!)

2020 PE Prep Series
Current Leaderboard
(Click to enlarge)

PE Problems

Visit July-October for daily Fire Protection PE Exam sample questions.

Solutions are posted the day after posting.

Comment with your solutions, questions or clarifications.

Please note that questions posted are unofficial and in accordance with NCEES rules are intended to be similar to actual exam questions, not actual exam questions themselves.

RSS Feed

Home - About - Blog - Contact - Exam Prep - Store

Copyright © 2021 MeyerFire, LLC
The views, opinions, and information found on this site represent solely the author shown and do not represent the opinions of any other party, nor does the presented material assume responsibility for its use. Fire protection and life safety systems constitute a critical component for public health and safety and you should consult with a licensed professional for proper design and code adherence. Some (not all) outbound links on this website, such as Amazon links, are affiliate-based where we receive a commission for orders placed elsewhere.