I have a project in the Miami area where there are some exterior glass panels that need to be 1-hour fire rated.
I specified the glass to be fire rated type, but it prices are coming back too high. The contractor is looking into an alternative of providing fire sprinkler protection on the inside face of the glass. Is this a feasible idea? The wall that the glass is part of requires the rating due to its being within 10' of some adjacent exterior glass. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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We have a fire sprinkler tree system that has a 6" centerline down from a metal deck (mains and lines).
Since an air release valve is required at the end of the system, what are our options for installation? All the options I can find are too tall to fit with our piping so close to the deck. We are not able to lower the piping due to other trades. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a steel aircraft storage hanger Group 1. It's approximately 50-ft high with exposed steel columns requiring a fire rating per NFPA 409-2022 Edition.
The steel will not be fireproofed but will be protected with sprinklers in accordance with NFPA 409 5.6.3.4. Can pendent sprinklers, installed sideways, be used to satisfy NFPA 409 for column protection? In the past we have protected the columns with sidewall sprinklers spaced according to 409 and on alternating sides of the column. Then the sidewalls were changed to pendent sprinklers installed horizontally to provide better spray distribution on the columns as the sidewall spray tended to (in theory at least) bounce the spray back in stead of vertically. This approach has been accepted by EOR and AHJs alike. NFPA 409 states that "wetting of the lower sprinkler should be considered" although multiple level sprinklers were never used. I'm not sure how this plays in. I recall reading that pendents installed horizontally could be used for column protection due to better spray distribution, however, I cannot find that in code. The client is not open to fireproofing or intumescent paint; column sprinkler protection is in the bit and is going to be used. All is appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does anyone know of any literature summarizing standpipe design changes history for the last 130 years or so?
Something to the effect of:
With more enforcement of 5-year standpipe flow testing in our area we find ourselves spending a lot of time trying to locate older versions of NFPA and NBFU to see the design basis at the time of construction to determine testing procedure. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can an assisted living facility that installed a an NFPA 13 compliant system which was only required to be a 13R now remove the dry attic part of the system?
They have had corrosion issues and leaks they are wanting to avoid. The only reason they installed the 13 system is initially they envisioned possible adding a skilled care section which is now not happening. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there any requirement for a standpipe to be installed due to travel distance between stairwells in a 3-story R-2 building?
I am reviewing plans of a U-shaped apartment building with two stairwells on the ends. The distance between them is about 470 feet. We are under the 2018 IFC. If not required by code, would you as the AHJ consider requiring them for improved fire operations? Thanks for any feedback. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Are foam system test headers allowed to flow outside and discharge the foam to the ground/storm water?
I see more and more places are banning AFFF from storm water. What about flowing AR-SFFF to storm? Any recommendations for capture if its not allowed to be send down the storm drain? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In regards to a trapeze pipe support, isn't there an option to size the rod that connects structure to the trapeze pipe separately from the rod from the trapeze pipe to sprinkler pipe?
Couldn't that be two separate calculations considering there are two rods for the trapeze and only one to the sprinkler main? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Would you require a pressure gauge on the bottom side of the backflow device? NFPA 13 says pressure gauges shall be installed above and below each “alarm” check valve or “system riser” check valve where such devices are present. Is the backflow preventer considered an alarm check or riser check valve? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an indoor amusement park (skiing activities) which has a back of house space where in machines are being repaired and refueled. There is a diesel storage room which a 1,320 gallon tank (5 cubic meters).
The room does not have any fire resistance rated walls and is also used for storing paint thinners (Class 2 flammable liquid). Just outside this room is a welding space. Is there guidance, somewhere, on what needs to be considered here for fire and life safety? I tried using NFPA 1, NFPA 30, and NFPA 101, but since this diesel tank is inside the space, I've not been able to find a reasonable solution in terms of fire and life safety requirements. Thanks for the input. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is CPVC allowed to be run exposed through a small storage room?
Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a showroom with an open mezzanine that takes up around 30% of the floor area. The bottom and the top of the mezzanine are office areas. The showroom has a ceiling height of 23-ft while the mezzanine has a ceiling height of 11-ft.
We designed the the showroom as Ordinary Hazard using standard response, extended coverage sprinklers (18' x 18') on the ceiling with the top part of the mezzanine also being protected with standard response, extended coverage. There are no walls on the top side of mezzanine. On the flip side, we designed the bottom part of the mezzanine using Quick Response, Light Hazard (15' x 15' ) spacing since it's an office (Light Hazard occupancy). However, since this is an open mezzanine with no walls separating between the two spaces, this means that both these areas would be considered one compartment. Under NFPA 13, sprinklers in the same compartment should be the same response type and hazard levels. However, would the elevation difference and the mezzanine floor separating the two make it okay to have two different type of hazard level and response type? If not, what about adding draft curtains? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a tree, wet system, we are using Schedule 7 for the mains and branch lines.
We are trying to design the seismic bracing, and the main is only strong enough for one side of branch lines, not the opposite side too. Should we use stronger pipe, or install more laterals? Is there a way to brace the branch lines to take the weight off the mains? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is the difference between feed main and cross-main in a sprinkler system?
As NFPA 13 mentions, feed main supplies the cross mains but in tree sometimes main pipe continues and supply the branches. What's the difference? Are we talking about each individual piece of pipe? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Would it be possible to replace a Kennedy K-10 dry barrel fire hydrant with a wet barrel fire hydrant if the main valve of the K-10 was left open, and a wet barrel hydrant was then bolted to the standpipe base?
We're in southern California, so we commonly have wet barrel hydrants in the area. Replacing with a wet barrel means we wouldn't have to excavate. The main reason I see is that the drain holes would be left open if the dry barrel main valve is removed. We have been unable to find new main valves for Kennedy K-10 hydrants. Your comments would be greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a dining room in a clubhouse that has multiple ceiling pockets at different sizes that are 1-5" in depth.
The total cubic footage of these pockets is 1,165 cubic feet. Could I protect one of the pockets in this space to bring my total unprotected pockets under 1,000 cubic feet, and leave the rest of these pockets unprotected? The entire floor space in this area will be protected. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a K14 ESFR system in a tall building; 45-ft peak and 35-ft eaves, that was hit by the changes in NFPA 13 and there is now a recommendation to upgrade protection to K25 ESFR sprinklers due to the roof height.
The current design is a very strong 12 K14 @ 90 psi and the storage is low at 16-ft of palletized Class III and IV goods. Based on the current storage arrangement, 2022 NFPA 13 allows for either K25 ESFR system or a CDMA design of .64/2,000 using ordinary temperature sprinklers. Is is permissible to recalculate ESFR systems with a CDMA design? If so, is there any specific mention or directive in code? I am not a designer but back of napkin math indicates I have a 1.33 gpm/sqft. density over the first 1,200 sqft based on the ESFR design and probably a .80/2,000. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can all main drains can be joined in one pipe?
If they can, does this pipe need to be capable of handling all flow at the same time? Are there any downsides to ganging them together? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Where would I go to find CMDA protection of Rack Storage less than 12-ft?
In this particular case, I'm looking at Class III commodities on wire racks in a 2,000 sqft room with 8-ft ceilings. This is paper file storage. In the past, I have been able to use the miscellaneous storage requirements, but not this time. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a car park area which is part of a bigger development that we are sub-dividing into different pressure zones due to it being a very tall building. The three levels of car park in total are less than 65-ft (20 m) high, but they are very long and wide. My question is about sprinkler control valve areas.
I know for ordinary hazard the restriction per floor from one riser is 52,000 sqft (4830 sqm) with no restriction as you go up. Does that mean for a wide, low-level building, say on 1 level, do we need a system riser for each 52,000 sqft? This seems pretty onerous to me, as FM Global do not even insist on this. Here in England, the restriction is 12,000 sqm x 10 floors per valve. I'm being asked by the authorities to allow the valves, but is that restriction of 52,000 sqft (4830 sqm) per valve set on a single floor set in stone? Can we do something based on hydraulic calculation that is more user friendly? Thanks in advance. Does NFPA 13 address the ability to size sprinkler pipe simply by being "sized by similarity"?
For instance, I have a small room that has (4) 1/2" pendent sprinklers to be located in it. I cannot determine any pipe routing from above due to an old ceiling but can verify the lines are 1-1/2" schedule 40. I've heard of this method being used but do not find it in NFPA 13 so I'm hesitant to use this method. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a room volume cut off that you use for clean agent space to make sure that your system will pass the room integrity fan test?
As an extreme example, a 50,000 sf space would probably be better for something like a double interlock preaction system since it would be difficult to make sure that the space is of tight enough construction to hold the clean agent (there will inherently be some leaks in construction despite doing all the recommended practices of gasketing, door threshold blocking, etc). Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For a project that has seismic expansions and the fire sprinkler piping is predominately CPVC, are seismic loops or assemblies still required?
If so, is there are preferred installation method? Would we need to transition to steel, then back to CPVC, in order to install a Metraflex or similar product? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an ESFR project with Obstructed Construction and want to be sure we're locating the height of the sprinkler 100% correct. This is an FM-Global project.
We are using K14 ESFR uprights. The bays are 25-ft x 25-ft boxed with W27 beams and contain small bays with W18 beams that are 6'-3" in-between. As far as I can tell, the sprinkler height is compliant as long as the center of the operating element does not exceed 6-inches below the W18 beams, to a maximum of 22-inches below the deck. So 4-inches maximum below the W18 beams is the target. We're using Table 8 in FM Data Sheet 8-9 for the design criteria. Is this approach correct? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13, 2022 Edition, Sections 28.2.4.2.4 says to that a design area can be only the sprinklers within the available design area whenever the available floor area is less than the density/area size.
The next section, Section 28.2.4.2.5, says that when the total flow is less than the density x minimum design area, an additional flow (phantom flow) shall be added at the common point of connection. When do you apply one versus the other? If I am interpreting this correctly, you only apply the 28.2.4.2.5 when you have the available floor area, but not the minimum flow? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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