Is there a minimum clearance requirement in NFPA 13 between structural steel and steel sprinkler pipe?
Area is not subject to earthquakes and the structural engineer want to strap the pipe directly to the steel like CPVC is strapped to wood. I've always been of the understanding that steel pipe must be hung, strapped to Unistrut attached to the structure, or supported on a trapeze, but I can't find where in 13 (if it exists) that says I can't use a strap. Obviously the fittings/couplings will prevent the pipe itself from contacting the steel. Trying to get the pipes as tight as possible to the sloped structural members and even using 1-5/8" unistrut with pipe clamps is getting pushback. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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Can a flow meter be installed in test header piping?
This is the first time I've ever seen this installation. Thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am in the process of designing a fire protection system for a whiskey distillery (making of, bottling, shipping & receiving). This project is a full blown distillery with fermenting tanks, barrel filling room, barrel storage etc.
I've looked at NFPA 13 & NFPA 30 as well as some FM Global Data Sheets (7-29 & 7-74) and cannot locate the correct hazard and commodity class to use. I have high piled storage and the storage of flammable liquids. What is the appropriate commodity classification and hazard to use for whiskey barrel storage? Maybe I'm in information overload at this point and looking to deep into it. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a private water main feeding a combined domestic and NFPA 13 system that was specified as C900. They installed SDR21 (6") instead.
They are using the argument that this 200 psi rated pipe will not be subject to the fire system pressure and therefore is ok. I cannot find where this is listed for fire service mains. Any direction? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a specific location requirement for a fire pump test header? NFPA 20 states that the header must be installed on the exterior wall, and outside the fire pump room. Does this mean that the test header cannot be installed in the fire pump room? Additionally, can the test header be directly connected to the pump discharge flange as shown in this photo? I have never seen this type of installation before. Thanks in advance.
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For NFPA 13D systems which are "multipurpose" or "flow-through" combination sprinkler and domestic systems, it has been troubling me as a fire code official not knowing the maximum length that a dead-end or arm-over section of pipe can be in order to be deemed safe from contaminating the potable water in a home.
NFPA doesn't seem to weigh in on this, that I know of. What is the maximum length for a dead-end or arm-over section of pipe in a combined sprinkler/domestic system? I've been searching for studies, contacting other AHJs, asking plumbers; but no one can give a definitive answer. From what I understand, there are no documented cases of illness from residential sprinkler systems, but I would rather not rely on this as a way to measure safety. I've seen a few sources say (and show) that water only circulates into the dead end at 1.5 x the diameter of the pipe going across. So if water isn't circulating, it seems like there's a risk for contamination. If contamination is not a risk for whatever reason, why have any maximum at all? I would love to get to the bottom of this and I look forward to hearing from others who have a deeper understanding. Thank you. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are working on a new electric car factory. Under the 2018 IBC, it's classified as an F-2 occupancy. Earlier we had provided ESFR sprinklers in these buildings.
Since there is no specific requirement for smoke removal for an F-2 occupancy, we want to provide standard response or quick response sprinklers instead of ESFR, by classifying parts of the building as Ordinary Hazard Group 2 (OH2) in NFPA 13. Is this reasonable for all areas? Production areas? Would an OH2 classified space require smoke removal? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For draft curtains in a warehouse protected by ESFR sprinklers, is there an NFPA standard directing us on the need to fill the gap that occurs between the top of the draft curtain and the underside of the roof deck?
Traditionally I have seen this gap stuffed with mineral wool. If there is an NFPA code reference, though, please share so I can make sure we're going about this correctly. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm working on an apartment that is surrounded by a manufacturing facility. The Fire Marshal is calling it NFPA 13R.
Can I use the new incoming water for domestic for fire as well, like in an NFPA 13D system? The manufacturing facility has its own system, but is attached to the apartment. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there a threshold of percentage-opening that would allow sprinklers to be omitted below a grill or something similar - like a metal grated catwalk?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is there any adopted or proposed sprinkler design criteria for Electric Vehicle charging stations that will be included in new parking garages?
The 2022 Edition of NFPA 13 is increasing the design for parking garages from Ordinary Hazard Group I to Group II, but I have not found anything about protecting the charging stations. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When is a fire pump pressure relief valve required?
Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a case where two (2) x 2,000 gpm existing electric fire pumps (primary duty pumps) are available.
Now, the system design demand is increasing from 4,000 gpm to 12,000 gpm due to a scope change, so we are bringing in new electric fire pumps (as primary/duty) to meet the higher demand. All new fire pumps could be either four (4) x 2,000 gpm or two (2) x 4,000 gpm towards meeting the 12,000 gpm system capacity. All performance test curves are checked for all existing fire pumps; they are almost new and meeting the required residual pressure at 2,000 gpm and their performance is close to matching the original equipment manufacturer curves; so these existing pumps need to be retained. Now we do have space constraints, so we'd like to use the two (2) x 4,000 gpm pumps, and their pressure characteristics would be the same as the existing pumps. Would NFPA 13/20 (and any other relevant NFPA standard here) permit two different pump capacities for the system? Would having different pump capacities be concerning, or cause issues? Is there anything else we should be considering here regarding the capacities? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a unique quandary that I haven't run into before. We have an overperforming fire pump.
It was factory tested, we have a factory performance curve of 68 psi churn, 52 psi at 500 gpm (100%), and 35 psi at 750 gpm (150%). Once it was field installed, we were 1-3 psi over on Churn, 50%, and 100%, but +10 psi on the 150%. We had a net pressure of 45 psi at the 150% test when, based on the factory curve, the net should have been 35 psi. We checked the nameplate for the match, nameplate for the expected pressure at 150%; they all match. The supply for the test in the field got pretty low (about 25 psi suction at 150% flow). The only unique thing I can see about this setup is that we have a very tight room and had to meet a military spec to flow through the flowmeter and both run outside as well as back to the recirculation. As a result, the path from the pump discharge to the outside has to navigate through nine (9) elbows in order to get enough clearance upstream and downstream for the flowmeter in this very tiny pump room. Could a test header with that many bends be affecting the net pressure on the 150% test? Is this considered a failure? As this is military, it'll be by the book and I'm concerned that an overperforming pump might set up future tests for failure if I can't identify why it would be overperforming at the 150%. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a new construction building that's wood frame (Type III-B), and we have an 8-inch horizontal standpipe. It's hung from wooden trapeze (two 2x4's) spanning wood floor trusses. Per NFPA 13-2019 Section 17.1.7.1, hangers and their components shall be ferrous metal.
Is a ferrous metal trapeze (steel angle or pipe span) permitted to span wood floor trusses? If so, must the trapeze avoid attaching to the web components of the truss? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Would a dry fire suppression system be affected by freezing temperatures?
I work at a facility that had a glass sprinkler break, no contact or anything, and of course the water came out as it should. We've had freezing temps for the last few days, but where it broke was in an 74 degree room, so not frozen. Any ideas on why this would have happened? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I understand if a duct is wider than 4-ft (1 m) that there needs to be a sprinkler under the duct.
But what if the duct is just below the ceiling? Does a sprinkler also need to be above the duct? I have a group of ducts with a combined with of 16'-6" (5 m) with the highest point of the duct 10 inches (25 cm) under the ceiling. Does there need to be a sprinkler above and below the ducts? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I purchased a commercial condo recently. It’s been vacant and unfinished since 2013. It’s a shell, picture is below. It has 5 residential condos on top and 5 commercial condos on first floor, in a 3 story building. All residential units were sold and have been occupied since. One commercial unit was also built and has been occupied as a salon with a U & O. There are no sprinklers, no fire room. They were going off of 2006 IBC code.
My architect prepared stamped plans with no sprinklers using the separated building scenario. It has a 2-hour horizontal separation, 3-5 hour vertical, no access to second floors. The plan was denied for sprinklers to be installed. Now, I certainly understand safety, but it’s almost impossible to install now after 12 years. Can you help me decipher mixed use B (1st floor) and R-3 (2nd and 3rd one unit)? Is this approach allowed by code, or is the code official correct? Is a self-contained fire area allowed to be its own building? Please help, thanks. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Designers and engineers get knocked (rightfully so) all the time for not living "in the real world".
I'm one of those designers. I've never installed any of these systems myself, but I want to know what advice those in the field would wish their designers and engineers knew. What is one error or issue that you've seen that was due to a designer having a lack of field experience? Pipe lengths? Obstructions? Elevators? Heights? Fab methods? What have you seen missed that could have been right the first time if they had field experience? Looking for ways to keep the field from hating me while acknowledging that I don't come with that level of experience. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project and have gotten into an internal debate. The project has four diesel fire pumps in one pump house.
During testing, are we allowed to run all four at the same time? Or do we need to run each separately as we do normally to reduce the chance of blowing out a main? Anyone have insight on this? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does anyone have experience in designing suppression for a warehouse that will store boats on racks?
I will appreciate any information. Which standard would even be applicable? Do we treat them like high-piled combustible storage per Chapter 32 of the IFC? What will be target hazard considering the fuel in the boat? Is there any limitation that how much they can keep inside the boat? Thanks for the input on this; I'm having a hard time on where to get started. Editor's Note: A Fire Protection Research Foundation on Marina and Boatyard Indoor Rack Storage Sprinkler Protection has been submitted and can be viewed here: PDF LINK Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project that includes a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF).
How do you properly seal an open drain that travels through a SCIF wall to the outside? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Can full height walls within a room create an obstructed construction situation in an otherwise unobstructed construction building?
As an example, you have a room with full height walls and a single exposed beam (in noncombustible construction) with the distance from the centerline of the beam to both parallel walls less than 7'-6". If allowed to define this as obstructed construction, a single sprinkler 1" to 6" below the bottom of the beam may be sufficient. If not, it may require a sprinkler on both sides of the beam. In a multiple-office type of occupancy this could save a lot of sprinklers. This example is assuming following all the rules for obstructed construction and the depth of the beam being such that you can't use the obstruction to sprinkler discharge rules to avoid the obstruction. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Topic: Water Delivery Time in Single Interlock Preaction Systems Question:
I'm currently designing a single-interlock preaction system and I'm seeking clarification about the water delivery time requirements under NFPA 13 (2013). Section 7.3.2.2 mentions that the system size cannot exceed 1,000 automatic sprinklers but doesn't specify the water delivery time for single interlock systems. On the other hand, Section 7.3.2.3 clearly states that double interlock preaction systems must deliver water within no more than 60 seconds. Does this mean that single interlock systems are not required to adhere to a specific timeframe for water delivery? In my view, it makes sense to not include a delivery time for single interlock systems, since water should already be at the sprinkler prior to activation. I'm interested in others' views or experiences in this area. Thanks in advance! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I am working on a permit for a 1,500 sqft (750 sqft/ floor) new construction live/work building R-2 in California (2022 California Building Code, which is based on IBC). It has a 1-bedroom apartment above with only "work" space below.
The building code allows for Live/Work R-2 to be protected with NFPA 13R. In the building code the only uses not allowed in the "work" area of Live/work are Group H & S. Where all of this gets hazy is that I interpret the code as 13R being allowed to protect this whole building regardless of use except for uses S or H. For instance would a small pizza joint be allowed in this "work" space as long as it did not have special hazards that would require an ANSL or NFPA 13 system? Or is Live/Work with 13R just purely limited to office, barber, professional space, etc.? From multiple angles I am trying to understand the true limits of Live/work when there are no local ordinances that limit the "work" space use except S & H. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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