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Under NFPA 13, 2016, Miscellaneous and Low-Piled Storage in Table 13.2.1. A system designed for Ordinary Hazard Group 2 allows for 5-ft or less storage of Group A plastics, and in a separate section of the table allows for Class I- IV with a height of 12' or less.
Is it permissible to store the Group A on the floor up to 5-ft in height, with the Class I-IV above it on the racks provided the racks meet the requirements of this section? Section 5.6.1.2 on Mixed Commodities seems to address more the amount of what is being stored and not so much the arrangement. I can see both side of the argument, but I can't seem to find anything the answers my question definitively. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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I have a project with deep concrete beams which are 24 inches deep, 4 inches wide, and located 6'-6" center to center.
Building is at least 20 years old. The original contractor, I think, treated the first beam like a wall and put a row of sprinklers on each side of it. The deflectors are 12 inches down. I'm assuming they then “skipped “ the next beam. At the third beam he put another double row. And then repeated the pattern. There are 4-inch deep lights in the center of each bay. They are sticking a layer of sheet rock on all sides and the ceiling. The sprinklers are 15 feet apart. It looks like the they are just protecting the bay on each side of the skipped beam with no sprinkler lines. The middle beam obstructs the coverage. This is a light hazard area with 9-ft ceiling height to top plat panel. Should the sprinklers be calculated flowing 6'-6" x 15'-0", or, flowing 13'-0" x 15'-0"? I believe a case could be made for both. It’s an all purpose room in a school basement. I could offer them OH 1 at 6'-6" x 15'-0" without changing spacing on the branches. I could only achieve Light Hazard if 13'-0" x 15'-0" is utilized. The architect shows minor changes for small closets, a few walls, and we're changing the sprinklers to quick response. Thank You very much. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have a project for a Aircraft Hangar Group II. We will be designing the foam system based on Inline balance pressure proportioning design under NFPA 16 Annex material.
The protected area has been divided into 3 zones. We are using an 8" Alarm check valve with a closed-head sprinkler for each zone. So the fire line is fully pressurized with water. What proportioner should I be using? Is it an inline balance pressure proportioner or a wide range / variable range proportioner better to get the 3% concentration when foam discharge at the nozzle? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13 9.3.5.11.6 states 'For longitudinal braces only, the brace shall be permitted to be connected to a tab welded to the pipe in conformance to 6.5.2' 6.5.2.2.3 specifies that 'Tabs for longitudinal earthquake bracing shall be permitted to be welded to in-place piping where the welding process is performed in accordance with NFPA 51B.'
Section 6.5.2.4.7 states ' Tabs for longitudinal earthquake bracing shall have minimum throat weld thickness not less than 1.25 times the pipe wall thickness and welded on both sides of the longest dimension.' My questions are: Is anybody using this method for longitudinal bracing? How do you calculate a brace using this configuration? Is there a tab on the market specifically for this application? Additionally, is Section 6.5.2.2.3 suggesting that tabs are only permitted to be welded in field? We do giant open warehouses where bracing typically can go exactly where the plan shows it. We fab 90% of our pipe in-house, and if we could specify the tab's location on the fab listings, we could potentially get rid of 212 pipe clamps for all longitudinal bracing. Besides the obvious install issue of 'it might not work in the exact location it's welded' - am I missing something...? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe For a sprinkler pipe that is low enough above the finished floor that it could be walked into by a person of standard height, can it be wrapped in foam or soft material by code to prevent knocking one's head on it?
Alternatively, is it allowed to wrap this pipe in yellow tape or adhesive to increase its visibility to prevent running into it? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have a project where the Specifying Engineer has noted to have a small hose connection for periodic (maybe every 6 months) building maintenance use to wash down a water intake filter.
They have specified that it be fed from the jockey pump upstream of the jockey discharge check valve and connection to the fire pump connection, so it would seem that it would not really affect the fire protection system or fire pump discharge. However, I don't think it is a good idea, and I think a separate pump for building maintenance should be provided. Looking to see if there is any code reference I can use for backup as common sense doesn't always work or maybe I am wrong. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I work for a local fire department that does plan reviews for fire protection systems. We are reviewing a project that requires 40,000 gallons of stored water. They are proposing using multiple fire water tanks and eight 5,000-gallon tanks.
While NFPA does not restrict the use of multiple tanks, I would like to see fewer tanks than eight. I am more inclined to allow two separate tanks at the most. However, I wanted to see what others thought and if there was a standard understanding or practice to number or size of tanks to the total needed water demand. Thanks for any help. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is anyone aware of a horizontal sidewall sprinkler model that is listed for installation up to 18" below the ceiling?
I've searched high and low and can't seem to find one. This would be for a light-hazard application installed in a gypsum soffit with flat, non-combustible ceilings. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When sizing an elevated fire water storage tank for the minimum supply duration of a sprinkler system, should non-remote areas (areas closer to the tank) of the system be considered as well?
Since sprinklers closer to the tank would be under higher pressure, they would discharge more water than those in the remote area. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do you reconcile NFPA 30, 2021 Edition, Chapter 9 General Storage Requirements which reference NFPA 13, 2019 Edition, and vice versa?
NFPA 30 Section 9.6.1 says that the MAQ is doubled when the building is sprinklered per NFPA 13. NFPA 13 has the Extra Hazard Group 2 occupancy, which covers "substantial amounts of combustible or flammable liquids." The word substantial obviously makes it an engineering judgment for when EH2 should be applied. Hypothetical example: An existing warehouse is sprinklered per NFPA 13 to protect rack storage of Class I-IV commodities and cartoned group A plastics. The owner wants to store a Class III-B liquid in the existing warehouse on the storage racks. They would store more than the baseline MAQ but less than double the MAQ they get for having an NFPA 13 system. In my opinion, this storage arrangement would be out of the scope of NFPA 13, so the double MAQ for sprinklering per NFPA 13 would not apply. I'd require a protection scheme from Chapter 16 of NFPA 30. Do you disagree? What if they only wanted to store under the baseline MAQ amount? Would you require a protection scheme from Chapter 16 of NFPA 30? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe With a wet ESFR system overhead, would a double interlock in rack system be permitted below?
I would assume linear heat detection would be installed in the racks, not at the roof? These are oil storage racks and foam tray storage racks that require in-rack sprinklers. The customer has a problem with forklift/sprinkler head interaction. If allowed, I would assume the rack and overhead systems would need to be balanced. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is an annual sprinkler inspection required for a storage room with a height of less than 12' and a room size totaling 100 square feet with a single sprinkler head installed?
I have been looking in NFPA 13 and 25 but I'm not sure I'm looking in the right direction for this ruling. Please help, thanks! Moderator's Note: So sorry crew, missed the post yesterday so following up with two today. Thanks! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I hear so many times that if the fire alarm panel dies, the entire building's fire alarm system must be brought up to current code.
Can anyone educate the world on when building fire alarm systems must be completely upgraded to the current code? The International Existing Building Code (IEBC) Section 6 lists all possible combinations. Level 1, level 2, and Level 3. None of them require a full upgrade to the current code when the main panel hits its end of life. If a system was to need to replace all items in its location with a different system, reusing locations and wire, it would not meet a Level 3 requirement alone and would simply be using new equipment or fixtures that serve the same purpose. Can someone give me an actual code path that requires a full upgrade in this scenario? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When doing Calculations for a building that has a fire pump that is fed by an above-ground water tank, what do I use for available supply?
The fire Pump is 75 psi at 1,500 gpm. City water refills the water tank. City water is 104 psi static, 81 residual at 1,453 gpm flow. Do I factor in the tank by figuring the pressure created by elevation, or do I bypass the tank and use the city pressure in combination with the fire pump? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Does Phantom Flow apply to a 750 sqft Paint Spray booth?
Currently acting as AHJ for a spray booth sprinkler submittal. We commented that their hydraulic calculations must comply with 2022 NFPA 13 Sections 28.2.4.2.4 and 28.2.4.2.5. Are we correct in our interpretation that Section 28.2.4.2.5 requires an additional flow to be added, like a secondary hose stream allowance, so that the design discharge meets the minimum required discharge? In this specific submittal, it would require an Extra Hazard Group 2 (EH2) spray booth (approximately 750 square feet in area) to add additional flow in the calculation to meet the minimum EH2 design discharge of 1,000 gpm? (ie: 0.40 x 2500 = 1,000 gpm). The Appendix material seems to confirm this interpretation. It seems like overkill, but I cannot find an NFPA Section that would allow the minimum design area (2500 sqft) to be reduced for calculation purposes, even if the spray booth itself is only 750 sqft. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe A 40,000 sqft, F-2 Occupancy, single-story metalworking facility of IBC Type II-B construction is not required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection due to the lack of sufficient combustible loading in the IBC.
However, the same 40,000 sqft single-story facility of IBC Type II-B construction of a Mercantile (M) occupancy must be provided with automatic sprinkler protection due to sufficient combustible loading to warrant sprinkler protection. Unfortunately, IFC Appendix B does not distinguish between these different occupancies with regard to Fire Flow except that a 75% reduction is offered to the M occupancy for sprinkler protection. Since no sprinkler protection is required for the F-2 occupancy, can't it be treated the same as occupancies requiring sprinkler protection and provided with sprinkler protection - allowing for the 75% reduction? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Is a flow switch required on the discharge side of the fire pump on the pipe before it exits the pump room?
We have an approved job that does not have a flow switch, and the fire marshal is requiring one. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What NFPA Standard(s) apply for two diesel generator tanks?
Two diesel generators (not emergency or standby), outside (but have enclosures) with each diesel tank stored underneath, the tank is rectangular in shape and has ~5,000 gallons of diesel fuel. Looking at the following code path; IMC Chapter 13 for fuel oil piping and storage and IFC Chapter 6--> 605.4 Fuel Oil Storage Systems --> storage above ground in quantities exceeding 660 gallons --> NFPA 31; OR IMC Chapter 9 engine and gas turbine-powered equipment and appliances. Is this approach correct? In reviewing both NFPA 37 and NFPA 31, both seem to be applicable; however, when it comes to "outside aboveground tanks" of this capacity, they both reference NFPA 30 (Section 6.3.3 for NFPA 37 and 7.9.3 for NFPA 31). So here's the main question - is NFPA 30 applicable here? I base this on a few things: 1. NFPA 30 Scope section 1.1.2 item 9 - it says it is NOT applicable to "liquids in fuel tanks of... stationary engines" ; and 2. All the boundary and tank to tank separation requirements throughout chapter 22 are based on the diameter of the tank. This leads me to believe this standard was not written for the type of tanks I have, but instead typical giant circular storage tanks.? Any insight is greatly appreciated. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have 10+ years of experience in the design, specification, installation, commissioning and operation of oxygen reduction systems. ORS are designed to prevent fires from occurring.
The experimental work undertaken by Xin and Khan, FM Global etc is all concerned with fire suppression, using substantial fires (up to 33 kW) combusting in ambient conditions, and then trying to suppress the resultant fire. There is a substantial variation in limiting oxygen concentration (LOC) with variation in the received level of radiation at the precombusted surface, which means that the LOC is not a fixed value. Is there a recognition of the impact of the received level of radiation upon the LOC in the fire engineering community? Is there any data or study to back it up? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe What is involved in a 5 year inspection/test for a manual wet standpipe?
I see in NFPA 25, 2017 edition that manual wet standpipes are not required to be flow tested or hydrotested when part of the sprinkler system. So my question again is are there any specific requirements for 5 year testing for manual wet standpipes? Thank you all! Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe If a bathroom is greater than 55 sq ft, but is compartmentalized into spaces less than 55 sq ft each, does the exemption from coverage apply to the compartments (assuming all other requirements apply)?
We have a bathroom where the toilet is separated from rest of the bathroom. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are thankful to our Top Contributors this November for sharing your expertise!
Is a hydrostatic test required for adding two new sprinklers to an existing system?
For this, assume it can be isolated, and the local jurisdiction refers to NFPA 13 - 2016 Edition. This is the most referenced code outside of the obstruction rule, and is the most common I've seen interpreted differently amongst professionals. Reference Chapter 25, Section 25.2. What is your "threshold" for triggering a hydrostatic test? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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