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A number of board and care facilities have missing hydraulic placards. It's possible they never had them since the sprinkler system was installed before placards were required.
They are now required, and I wonder if it would be a viable option to survey the system, get pipe diameters and sprinkler counts, and see if they fit within the criteria of the pipe schedule method? If it does, would there be any issues stating so on the hydraulic placard? The board and care facilities range from 3 - 16 bedrooms and no more than 2 stories high. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe
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A fire pump supplies a combination riser for sprinklers/standpipes.
Between the combination riser and the fire pump, there are 2 pressure-reducing CLA VA in series. It appears that 2024 NFPA 14 10.2.5 requires a bypass assembly for these 2 CLA VA. Is there any reason or justification to delete this bypass around the CLA VA assembly? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe In reference to the 2025 edition of NFPA 72, Table 14.4.3.2, Item 17(7)(a), it is stated that "manufacturer’s published instructions that ensure smoke entry from the protected area, through the vents, or into the sensing chamber" may be used, which appears to include self-testing smoke detectors such as the Honeywell self-test series.
These detectors introduce a small quantity of smoke or aerosol into the sensing chamber as part of a built-in functional test sequence. It is my understanding that this self-testing technology may fulfill the requirement for a functional test that traditionally uses an aerosol can to verify smoke entry and detector response during both initial acceptance and annual testing. Further, Section 14.4.4.2 states that “If automatic testing is performed at least weekly by a remotely monitored fire alarm control unit specifically listed for the application, the manual testing frequency shall be permitted to be extended to annually in accordance with Table 14.4.3.2.” However, this section does not explicitly clarify whether this weekly automatic testing relates to the smoke detector’s functional test, sensitivity test, or both. With that context, I would like to get clarification on the following points: Does NFPA 72 (2025) permit the use of self-test smoke detectors that introduce a small amount of test smoke into the sensing chamber to fully satisfy the functional testing requirements (including smoke entry testing) for both initial acceptance and annual testing per Table 14.4.3.2? If an approved self-test detector performs an automatic internal functional test that verifies smoke entry into the sensing chamber and provides results to a remotely monitored fire alarm control unit, does NFPA 72 still require a manual smoke entry test (e.g., aerosol can) for annual testing purposes? Does the reference in Section 14.4.4.2 to “automatic testing performed at least weekly” apply to functional testing, sensitivity testing, or both? And is there any mandate elsewhere in NFPA 72 requiring weekly testing of smoke detectors? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I have sloped steel decking on Glulam Beams 11" wide x 26" deep to 36" deep. They range from 2'-2" to 6'-0 wide in a light and ordinary hazard community center setting. I have areas with ceilings below as well. Do I need above and below sprinklers due to the wood beams? Do I need to have heads between the beams up to a 12" deflector distance in areas without ceilings? The 22" deflector depth doesn't make a difference in this instance. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  We have an old server room. The server room is split into two side-by-side rooms separated by a wood stud wall with sheet rock covering. One server room side is approximately 15'x30'. The other side is approximately 30'x30'.
The ceiling is a 2 ' x2' square ceiling tile with insulation above. Above the ceiling is open to the warehouse. The floating floor is suspended approximately 12". Wires for the servers are under the floating floor resembles a bird's nest. The wires also protrude through all four walls at various locations, but mainly between the floating floor and the concrete floor. The old sprinkler system needs upgrading. We are thinking of a clean agent system, but the cost would be monumental. Moving the server room to a different location would also be cost-prohibitive. Both server rooms would require doors, walls, and ceiling modifications including rewiring all the server equipment for a clean agent system. We have a large amount of server equipment. Does anyone have fire protection system(s) suggestion? Does anyone have reference material for suggestions on installing different systems to provide to upper management? What is the best method for providing a cost estimate for various types of systems? Also, has anyone had luck with the misting system in server rooms? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We are converting a 1930s church to a live music venue. To prevent noise, we are sealing the roof in the attic and insulating the ceiling in the attic. The fire sprinkler pendants were installed through the existing plaster ceiling with oversized bore holes. Additionally, the pendants have a metal collar with 4 integral slots. Is it permissible to seal the oversized bore hole? Is it permissible to seal the upper terminus of the slotted metal collar? We're not looking to violate code but address the sound needs. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  We have a room that will be used to store clothes within a changing room. The facility is a place of worship. The owner is planning on 4' wide by 8' long free-standing storage shelves. We just discovered that the unit top will be only 4" below the ceiling. The room was planned for light-hazard concealed sprinkler protection. So, would you consider this storage? Or would you look at the shelving unit as an obstruction? In retail, we would limit the height of the unit to be 18" below the ceiling. But I'm not sure how to protect this build. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  We have a building that's Type III-B construction.
Does a recessed building entry's ceiling need to also be 2-hour fire resistance rated, and non-combustible? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When calculating a risk score on an occupancy, a question asked is "Is fire flow available?"
My question is this: which hydrants does everyone count towards being available? IFC 507 states that if a hydrant is not within 400-600 feet, then an on-site hydrant is required. Some of my colleagues interpret that as "Anything outside of that radius does not count as available for Fire Flow." We carry 1000 ft of supply hose, so some say all hydrants within a 1000 ft radius contribute. However, that is really to dress a single hydrant up to 1000 ft away, not to dress multiple hydrants within 1000 ft. Ultimately, we get to decide in the end, but we want to make an informed decision and document our methods for consistency. This question is not about calculating the needed flow and assumes the water department can provide accurate flow data for each barrel. Any insight from the pros and other AHJ's would be fantastic. Thank you for your time. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How do you determine the effective capacity of a water storage tank for fire protection purposes?
Where are the unusable limits set for the bottom of the tank suction and the top air gap? Is there a mandate for either of these in code or standards? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe We have an MLF-1015 Lint Collector on a roof.
Does it need fire protection? I have never covered one yet. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Diesel fuel tank - how low should I allow the diesel fuel level to drop before I fill the tank with diesel fuel for a fire pump?
Should I add diesel fuel when the fuel gauge drops to 3/4 full, 2/3 full, or 1/2 full? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I understand that sloped ceilings are those that exceed a 2:12 pitch.
NFPA 13, 2025 edition, Chapter 19.2.3.2.4 (3) & (4) mention ceiling slopes that do not exceed 4:12. This leads me to believe that there are additional criteria for ceilings exceeding 4:12 pitch. Is anyone aware of additional criteria regarding design criteria where ceilings exceed 4:12? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe How would you go about designing for a trapeze supporting (2 or more) 6" mains over large spans?
For example, you have a 16'-0" trapeze span, your truss is every 8'-0". Your idea is to place one long trapeze across 16'-0" to support 2-4 feed mains treeing from a riser manifold. NFPA 13 says we double the section modulus for every pipe, but that is assuming the we are using (2) attachment points; it doesn't seem to explain different configurations like attaching at 3 or more points on the structure. How would we go about designing for this? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Existing remote church with water provided by a storage tank. The church plans on building a separate meeting hall that does not connect to the church. These buildings will be approximately 200 feet apart. This new building will require sprinkler protection.
Is it possible to use the existing storage tank to serve both buildings? The current tank is sized just for one fire area, so it is not for two simultaneous fires. Normally, two separate buildings have two services, but I wonder if there is an exception for storage tanks in remote areas. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe NFPA 13, 2016 Section 6.4.8 permits using extension fittings ("cheaters") for sprinklers K8 or smaller.
Does anyone actually make a listed cheater? There are multiple manufacturers/suppliers that sell them, but none of them appear to be listed. I see the benefit of using small extension fittings that don't impact hydraulic calculations (per Section 6.4.8.5.1) when ceilings are installed at the wrong elevation, but I don't see how you can use them if they aren't listed per NFPA 13, 2016 Section 6.1.1. Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Renovating an 11-story hotel using residential sprinklers in accordance with NFPA 13 (2019). Calcs based upon S x L (4 sprinklers at .10 density) or manufacturer data sheets (which ever requires greater demand). Sprinklers need to be 175° due to less than 24" from the side of the wall mount diffuser. There are a few rooms that require a SW throw of 20'-4" (22'-0' per data sheets). However, many manufacturers do not manufacturer this 22 ft throw in 175°, only 155°. Can I use a quick response (Viking VK630) SW that throws 22 ft along with the residential sprinklers in the same compartment? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe  We are protecting a single row storage rack that is located beside a wall. The distance between the face of the storage rack and the wall is approximately 18". We are installing in rack sprinklers.
Can the line of in-rack sprinklers be installed along the face of the single row rack, between the storage rack and the wall? Or must the line of in-rack sprinklers be located inside the storage rack? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe I'm designing a 13R system. The building currently has a 3/4" domestic water service. The building is in a location that would make installing a new (larger) service a logistical nightmare.
Is it allowed to connect the 3/4" existing supply to a water storage tank (sized per system/domestic demand) in the basement, then build a residential riser from that? If this is allowed, do I only take my calculations back to the storage tank? Do you foresee other problems with this? Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When connecting a FDC to a system at a point other than the riser, is it acceptable to connect a 4 x 2½ x 2½ (2-inlet) FDC using 4" pipe feed for the FDC and tying the 4" pipe to a 2" sprinkler main?
Thanks in advance. Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe When using a draft curtain and closely spaced sprinklers at a floor opening for an exit access stair, what is the 18" depth for the draft curtain measured to?
The adjacent ceiling surface, or the deflector of the sprinkler? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe Thanks for sharing your thoughts and improving the industry! Celebrating April 2025's Top Contributors:
I have a private fire main serving a large manufacturing building. The fire main is served by a city connection and has an electric and diesel fire pump before returning underground and surrounding our building. The jockey pumps have a connection to a Jockey Pump Expansion Tank, and I have no idea what this is intended to do.
Does anyone have similar equipment or know what a Jockey Pump Expansion tank does? Sent in anonymously for discussion. Click Title to View | Submit Your Question | Subscribe |
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